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The new official TOJ thread, 2011 - Page 1439

post #21571 of 40755
Kent that request makes no sense at all, sleek goth ninja legit margiela ???
post #21572 of 40755
Thread Starter 
Alright, forget about the goth ninja, MMM, shearling, and other noise for a moment, what I'd like to talk about is two-part; one is motorcycle jackets, upon which I've been ruminating on since the discussion started, and then two, maybe some rough ideas for the next reboot (no pun) of TOJ.


So bike jackets, for now, I will keep them fairly simple and true to my roots. As it's a new project, it might someday morph into something else, but for the basis that I feel most strongly about, I think that:

-the general aesthetic will be something you already know - TOJ classics, so they would indeed be best matched to standards and cafe racers. They'd work for the sport bike guys if they were planning on maybe trawling around town and dual-purposing their outfit around town, but I feel that my basis is in the style and quality of clothes, and therefore if people are looking for the ultimate roadsuit, perhaps they should look elsewhere. One thing does not equal another, in this case.
The idea: the jacket should look good while on the bike, provide some (keyword, I'm not a crash test institute or going to guarantee your life if you're riding your bike, this is just clothing) added level of protection that an unarmored jacket (think classic old-fashioned 'biker' jackets) can't give, and then be a reasonable compromise as a leather jacket you can wear off-bike as well, without sacrificing style. The fit won't be skin-tight, obviously, but it will look fine.
That goes against what eidolarr really wanted, I feel, but at the same time, I didn't really have it in mind to make a hardcore sliding jacket. Once again, this jacket is intended to be a 'plus' addition to your basic classic leather riding jacket that has no armor provisions; Schott Perfecto or Lewis, what have you. I guess to be fully honest, there's two spectrums here that often clash against each other, one would be style, and then safety; I want the jacket to rank very highly in style, and then at least register in the medium to medium-high levels for protective ability. If they go down, they will probably get scratched up, but I want them to at least pad the joints and back from a fall.

I am undecided on the armor, however, there will need to be exactly one style/size/configuration to be decided upon ASAP. I welcome suggestions, but I am looking for slimline pads that can provide a reasonable level of protection. Let's say CE1, D3O stuff as a base. Shoulders, back, elbows, 5-pc kit. That's what we can do where I feel the important stuff is protected, and style is minimally compromised. Feedback appreciated here.
Anyway, the reason there can only be one universal choice for armor with the TOJ bike jackets is this, very simple - I won't be providing the armor. You will. The jackets will be made MTM so that they can fit anybody, and so at the time of ordering, one will need to have the decided-upon armor in person in order to measure properly. It's very simple and no more complicated than MTM'ing a regular TOJ, in fact it might be slightly easier. Anyway, anyone will procure armor through their own avenues, and then the jacket will show up and the armors will slide right in. We can only make patterns for one set/brand of armor, really, so for the same of compatibility we need to whittle down to one brand.

The construction will be of the 4oz calfskin to start, that's 1.6mm thick. Thermal seam taping and then reinforcement stitching throughout, high-tensile poly thread, and then a breathable cotton lining. I like mesh but it comes with a weird synthetic smell to it, and also exposes all the interior bits, which is less attractive IMO. We can consider both, I guess.

The styles: 2010 Moto, MDR for now. Hearing requests.

I am not a rider, but I think I have enough sympathy towards the requirements of a casual rider at least; I've considered getting a bike many times and this is pretty much the jacket that I'd want for myself at the end of the day.
I've never seen an attractive looking rider's jacket that provided any level of protection beyond animal skin. Also, I obviously like leather jackets, I feel that good leather quality (stuff you'd want to wear into a non-riding situation) is not that common on the market, especially in conjunction with armor.

Fashion and motorcycling are two different worlds; fashion is all about the fit, the quality, the image, the wearability; motorcycling has high performance as well as image demands where compromises can be made. I mean, let's be honest - if I had a bike, it wouldn't always be about the thrill of just riding, I gotta admit I'd be all about the looks too. redface.gif

The price - still tabulating. Because it's not much more than a beefed up (internally) regular TOJ, it won't be much more than what a TOJ costs, at least for now, while I pilot the program. I need to iron out the exact details, and then a certain number of orders to put this idea into full reality. I will be in Seoul tomorrow, and will take photos of the prototype of this jacket. It was already made for my friend a year ago, and it's been serving him since. We used D3O there.
post #21573 of 40755
does the toj customer base really include the motorcycle community though? i think remember like 5 different people max who wanted one with armor protection capabilities for riding.... just wondering how many of these you intend to actually sell
post #21574 of 40755
Seems a fairly natural and simple extension of the normal leathers. Can't imagine that they suddenly require a ton of volume to make this work and allows them to showcase their product to a different market.
post #21575 of 40755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmaged View Post

does the toj customer base really include the motorcycle community though? i think remember like 5 different people max who wanted one with armor protection capabilities for riding.... just wondering how many of these you intend to actually sell

 

It's not so much as people actually go riding or fight wars with these jacket, people just like knowing the stuff they purchased has the capability to do so.

 

Similar to why people buy 300-400+ HP cars, no one really street races or track with them, but it's nice to know you have that power in your hands.

post #21576 of 40755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arethusa View Post

Oh fuck off, for every Buzz Ricksons there are a thousand of these.
0A1Lu.jpgp0I5o.jpg
Even plenty of the historical repros look kind of shitty (I wouldn't want a Lost Worlds A2, and I don't care how many old dudes think they're awesome). Yes, there are good motos and bombers out there that aren't toj, and they're easier to find than a good, well cut shearling. But that's, you know, kind of the point?

 

Bombers are a classic and will always be bought, I think that's the direction ToJ wants to head towards anyways: classic pieces / silhouettes with a bit of edge crafted with quality material.

post #21577 of 40755
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmaged View Post

does the toj customer base really include the motorcycle community though? i think remember like 5 different people max who wanted one with armor protection capabilities for riding.... just wondering how many of these you intend to actually sell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raindrop View Post

It's not so much as people actually go riding or fight wars with these jacket, people just like knowing the stuff they purchased has the capability to do so.

Similar to why people buy 300-400+ HP cars, no one really street races or track with them, but it's nice to know you have that power in your hands.

There is, and people will use them for their intended purpose. People won't be buying the armored versions of the TOJs for fashion, there is no reason to, and they're sized and made specifically around the armor, so it's not like something you would buy without being fully committed - people will need to supply their own armor set from the outset.
Also for example, Blackmaged, a page back somebody suggested I make a white fishtail parka (that coat in the picture actually came from my home when I lived with winq, and it ended up in Europe somewhere... I've handled that coat and everything, it's nice and it's its own thing, but I am not making a white fishtail parka) - the market for a motorcycle jacket like I've described is probably a thousandfold of what a white fishtail parka can attract. I don't know why this is so hard to conceive. I have made thousands of leather jackets for people... adding what I want to, to make them capable of being riding jackets - it's not too much of a stretch and is only a good thing.

People have been riding in non-armored leather jackets for too long, we have had the technology to add a little safety buffer in there without sacrificing much of the 'look,' and I'm going to do my best rendition of that. It's not that hard to understand.
post #21578 of 40755
It's not hard to conceive there's a market for good quality motorcycle jackets, but Blackmaged's point still stands. How many people with TOJ ride a motorcycle?

It all depends on whether you want to cater to a whole new market or stick with the current TOJ market.
post #21579 of 40755
Um, people have posted pictures of themselves riding in lamb jackets. That's fucking retarded, but there are definitely people who wear toj and ride.

Part of me wants one of these and part of me knows the odds of ever getting a motorcycle are extraordinarily slim. Alas.
post #21580 of 40755
Thread Starter 
I dont think there's tons, but you would be surprised - more than a few. That's not saying anything about people's friends who'd not normally buy a fashion leather but have a bike and would be down to get a bike leather. I know of like, 4 or 5 guys amongst my friends from the past who'd never buy a TOJ for fashion, but have bikes.
post #21581 of 40755
if aether doesn't buy one i am disappoint.
post #21582 of 40755
*raises hand*

If this had existed 6 months or a year ago, I probably would have bought one for my first TOJ...I ended up getting a good deal on one of these from an SFer. I am perfectly happy with it, but the leather's not that nice and while I couldn't go any smaller in the chest, the waist adjusters are tightened as far as they go and I would probably prefer it to be even slimmer down there--that wouldn't happen in a TOJ since drew doesn't have to worry about the same size 42 pattern accommodating a 50 year old 5'10 chubby dude and a 6'2" 25 year old.

This year I've bought the above leather and ordered a MDR...if these options were real, I might have just jumped on an armored 2010 moto and actually ended up spending less money. I think there is definitely a market...its going to be smaller than the normal TOJ market since its a bit harder to convince people who aren't into clothes to spend $1000 on a jacket+armor but I think there will be both a group of "TOJ-type people" who ride and a group of riders who are interested in stepping up from their $600 jackets to a TOJ that they might be more comfortable wearing off the bike. Especially considering how popular the whole retro bike thing has gotten...you have a much more amenable group in the cafe racers/vintage-revival japanese and english riders than you would find in the old sport bike powerranger/cruiser bruisers/ADVrider cordura and ballistic nylon groups of dudes.
post #21583 of 40755
Yup, had this been available pre-cut-off, that's exactly what I would have ordered.
post #21584 of 40755
anyone who ordered on or around the deadline receive their moto yet? just curious and eager =0)
post #21585 of 40755
Every time I enter the thread and see that fishtail it hurts a little inside that I never ordered one.
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