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To Clarify the Difference - MTM, Custom, Bespoke - Page 2

post #16 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirtmaven View Post
it is made toyour measurements
most computer pattern programs can be manipulated to achieve excellent fit.
the main issue is who took the measurements and and if the block pattern for the garment is what the customer is looking for.

Which would you consider CEGO shirts Carl?
post #17 of 33
I refer to my self as a custom shirtmaker.

most of our shirts are made in a larger factory in NJ.
patterns are constructed in the computer then cut via an automated knife cutter.

additional hand sloping is sometimes done after the machine cut.

the shirts made on site require a paper pattern. why? because I cant justify the cost of the computer system. I have another patternmaker friend who could print patterns based on measurements from his computer. we have discussed this process for a lower priced line produced off shore. but so far, this has not happened.
we will sometimes cut a shirt off of our basic block pattern.

the main difference between the patterns of the two shirts is that we can make even greater adjustments to the shoulder and yoke area.
post #18 of 33
ive been meaning to ask this and i think this is the appropriate thead to do so. i got my first mtm suit, it is a zegna. i picked a fabric/pattern i liked, got measured by the tailor at the shop, who will send his measurments to zegna. what happens at the factory? is a suit made to to my measurements out of a spool of that fabric, is a rtw suit of that fabric that is close to my size altered at the factory to my measurments or something else altogether?
post #19 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post
ive been meaning to ask this and i think this is the appropriate thead to do so. i got my first mtm suit, it is a zegna. i picked a fabric/pattern i liked, got measured by the tailor at the shop, who will send his measurments to zegna. what happens at the factory? is a suit made to to my measurements out of a spool of that fabric, is a rtw suit of that fabric that is close to my size altered at the factory to my measurments or something else altogether?

Altering a ready-made suit would not be 'made to measure'. When Zegna receive your measurements your suit will be cut out and made from the fabric (which comes on a 'bolt', a 'spool' is what thread comes on), using a pattern derived from your measurements.
post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum View Post
Altering a ready-made suit would not be 'made to measure'. When Zegna receive your measurements your suit will be cut out and made from the fabric (which comes on a 'bolt', a 'spool' is what thread comes on), using a pattern derived from your measurements.

thank you
post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by in stitches View Post
ive been meaning to ask this and i think this is the appropriate thead to do so. i got my first mtm suit, it is a zegna. i picked a fabric/pattern i liked, got measured by the tailor at the shop, who will send his measurments to zegna. what happens at the factory? is a suit made to to my measurements out of a spool of that fabric, is a rtw suit of that fabric that is close to my size altered at the factory to my measurments or something else altogether?

The measurements sent to Zegna go to the "blue pencil". This person looks at your measurements and selects which pattern to use based on your size and the silhouette requested. He then compares your measurements with the fixed measurements of the block pattern. He writes a prescription, so to speak, of how much and where to increase or decrease the block pattern to your specifications. This would look like, shorten jacket length 1/2", lengthen sleeve3/4", narrow point to point 1/2" reduce girth 1/4" at the front edge and 1/4" on the side body and back at the waist, etc. Different MTM programs have their own limit to how far they will go in making adjustments especially regarding posture issues. These instructions go the the cutter. He lays out the cloth, takes the block pattern and marks out the pattern onto the cloth, moving and shifting the pattern to accommodate the changes prescribed. The suit is cut and trimmed then sent thru the factory to be sewn together. This was the old school method. Most automated shops today put your measurements into a computer software system that will "grade" the changes onto a pattern and print the pattern out with your adjustments made on the paper pattern. The pattern is laid on the cloth and cut out together, cloth and paper at one time. This removes the step of human manipulation of the pattern and marking out the pattern with chalk. This is the method used by bigger shops. I'm sure Jefferyd could add to or correct my information about the process
post #22 of 33
Custom: American Term
Bespoke: English Term

The two should be equal. Of course "should be equal" is not necessarily the same as "are equal."
post #23 of 33
Chris has it right. But I'll add this- the computer does not come pre-programmed to make the alterations, the designer has to set them up (program them) so the result is exactly the same as what you would get if you would do it by hand, and is highly individualized.

This is an example of a typical MTM order sheet which gives you an idea of the type of customization that is usually possible. The most important element is the skill of the person measuring and fitting you.

post #24 of 33
thank you very much!
post #25 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferyd View Post
This is an example of a typical MTM order sheet which gives you an idea of the type of customization that is usually possible. The most important element is the skill of the person measuring and fitting you.


^that's a LOT more than I would have expected
post #26 of 33
I have experience with MTM, not bespoke, but my understanding is as follows:

Bespoke: The tailor starts with your measurements, as opposed to a stock pattern. After taking exhaustive measurements, and allowing you to specify every detail of the suit, construction begins. Along the way, there will be multiple fittings so that adjustments may be made between the initial measurements and the final product.

MTM: A MTM suit is based largely on a stock pattern. When I had a MTM done, I tried on a number of sizes and cuts, found the cut/size of jacket and pants that worked best, and that was the baseline for the suit. Measurements were taken and adjustments specified (take in a bit here, shorten there, etc.). MTM also allows many details to be specified (such as: 2 or 3 button, slanted pockets, pocket flaps or none, ticket pocket, peak or notch lapel, flat-front or pleated trousers, belt loops, side tabs or just brace buttons)

It seems there's another category, MTO (made to order), which just lets you pick from stock patterns and fabrics, but allows more mix-and-match than buying OTR.
post #27 of 33
Thread Starter 
The details regarding MTM are pretty clear now. Thanks so much.

Now what would you say regarding a custom suit that only required 1 fitting (in the beginning)?
post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasmade10 View Post
The details regarding MTM are pretty clear now. Thanks so much.

Now what would you say regarding a custom suit that only required 1 fitting (in the beginning)?

Hard to say without knowing the degree to which the pattern was designed specifically for you vs. being tweaked based on your measurements. Also, was one fitting all that came with it, or did it truly fit perfectly after that? If the suit fits perfectly, then who really cares?
post #29 of 33
Bespoke/custom - product of an artisan (can have various degrees of customization, fit, etc. variable to the craftsmanship of the tailor); MTM - industrial product with various degrees of customization, fit, etc. variable to the flexibility of the industrial operation.
post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasmade10 View Post
The details regarding MTM are pretty clear now. Thanks so much.

Now what would you say regarding a custom suit that only required 1 fitting (in the beginning)?

This would depend on the tailor & how many times you have made garments with them. For example, A&S/A&S expats pride themselves on being able to make a garment with only a single forward fitting. Other tailors prefer multiple fittings. If you have used a tailor several times, then I suppose it might be possible to go from a single fitting or none at all (if you're confident they will be able to deliver)... For first time orders, I would prefer 2 or more fittings, unless you're working with an A&S-trained tailor...
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