Job Referenced:Ethical Question - Page 3

That's also something I've been a little bit confused about. If there is no work history between the two, I'm not sure what the point of a reference is. I also don't see why you can't be glowingly positive in a purely personal reference - how would you know what they're work habits are if you've never worked with them?

This is good.

Personally, I've given references for friends who've had a checkered history - one in particular stands out. The references he gave when we hired him were all glowing, but none really touched on his attitude, which was his downfall. He just got to be a pissy guy, and things didn't work out for him.

When I took calls for a reference for him, I was careful to sell the high points (which were valid), and when they asked for any weak spots, I was again careful to disclose that we're a hard bunch to get along with, so my comment wouldn't necessarily be valid across the board. Turned out he landed in a good role with some good people so I was glad that happened. He's hard-working, but not perfect.

the pt of a personal reference is that many employers look to see what type of person they are hiring...ie, is he/shee a dooooousche. that's why they screen your myspace/facebook/etc pages.

I was in a similar situation once. I have a deadbeat friend -- one of my closest friends from childhood, an extremely bright guy who just never got his act together -- who asked me to be a reference for him when he applied to his first job out of law school. Knowing that I am not a lawyer, and that I do not know what makes a good lawyer, and that nobody in the legal profession would take my reference all too seriously, I happily wrote a sterling rec for the friend. I talked about how bright he is, what a great analytical mind he has (totally the truth), and so forth. All personal qualities, but no real mention of professional skills or accomplishments. Why? Because I'd never worked with the guy. I made up some bullshit about how he'd helped me out on some transactional analysis informally, but he had never been my employee or coworker per se. He got the job and promptly fucked up. He left, on his own accord, a year into it. Nothing I wrote ever came back to haunt me. Now, had he been my coworker or in my industry, I would have emphasized in the letter that I am his personal friend and am writing in that capacity.

I would feel bad about being friends with a liar and a thief. shrug










You seem to have a lot invested in this. Are you the friend?

Funny, but no. I am just big on loyalty. I would do anything for my friends and I would hope they do the same.

Perhaps being a friend means helping your friend get treatment for his ADD and anxiety. I don't see the benefit in covering up his illness if it's only going to result in him being fired again at some point down the road. This will just be another lost job for him, and a loss of credibility for you.

I had an attorney friend who I worked with who was an alcoholic. He stole money from a client, got a DUI and was suspended for a short time. He then went through rehab and started working as an attorney again after his suspension was lifted. He was upfront about his illness and he was an excellent attorney. If someone were to call me and ask me for a reference for him I would absolutely endorse his legal skills, but I could not and would not cover up his suspension. Fortunately, I don't think he would try to hide it.

Obviously, this kind of professional career is very different than if my friend were applying to be a line cook at Denny's.


Thanks.

on a side note...every company ive worked for had strong rules on this. If asked, all that can be said is if they are eligible for rehire or not. If they are NOT eligible, the reason cant be given. At least thats how it was for the places i worked...im sure it probably differs on personal reccommendations.

Were I in this position, this is how I'd deal with it. But if this friend would make such a bad employee, why did you agree to be a reference in the first place? It seems you've just put yourself into a very uncomfortable position.


You sound fairly desperate for friends. I suppose that some of us just simply think differently than you do. For some of us, being honest is a higher moral prerogative than getting a lazy, lying possible thief a job.

I'm actually torn on this. I think, in this case, I would basically say "this person is my friend, I have never worked with him, but I consider him a good personal friend" or something like that.

on the other hand, when I really needed a job, a woman who, back 15 years ago, I had helped out get from a position of a secretary to a sales position, from which she was then able to advance, was asked to give a reference for me. she said something very neutral that screwed me over. and that really, really pissed me off.

What uncomfortable position - you will never know after the fact. Once you finish giving the reference, your involvement is over forever.

No, I am a good friend who is loyal and who will help them when they need it. I don't care what some HR jackass on the phone thinks of me, but I care about my friends. Good to know that you would sell your friends out when they need your help the most.

Some people just have a bad employment history for whatever reason and if that person is my friend - I am not going to hold it against them. So yes, we think differently.

I'd say something similar to this. I try to talk about the qualities of the person that I've seen him exhibit. Honestly, I can't say that I'd endorse a person for employment who is a liar, cheat, and thief. I don't keep friends who display these behaviors.

I give glowing endorsements to all of my friends regardless of what I think about them personally. I want them to succeed professionally and if they screw up on the job then it's on them but I won't stand in their way. Thankfully I have great friends.

Exactly.

When I initially read this I thought the OP's friend was applying to the OP's company or a similar industry. Hence why I said that. If you work in i banking and he is applying to Taco Bell, go ahead.