Stats: Brady Better than Manning - Page 6

Fuck you guys and your facts. I'm leaving.

I'm not going to go deep into the draft question other than to say that coupled with his low draft position and the fact that he plays for a guy well-reknowned for doing more with less is always going to have people questioning just how much of it is him and just how much of it is Belichick. I'm not denying that Brady is great - he's clearly extremely accurate, extremely smart, and one of the greatest of all time. But the question will always remain for me.

Shannon Sharpe, 7th round
Rodney Harrison, 5th round
Zach Thomas, 5th round
John Randle, undrafted
Kurt Warner, undrafted
Priest Holmes, undrafted
Antonio Gates, undrafted
Nate Newton, undrafted
Richard Dent, 8th round
Warren Moon, undrafted

edit:


Oh. Nevermind then.

That's a good list out of the hundreds of guys. You guys are a lousy bunch of sports nerds.

Bubeleh, I went to virtually every 49er home game from 80-92, and most of them up to 96. I saw those two play a little. Moreover, and more importantly, you would have quite a hard time finding one player from those teams who thought Young was a better quarterback.

I'm going to amplify my point just a little bit here - IMO so much of "success" in the NFL has to do with schemes, the situation, the personnel, the culture, the patience of those around you to stick with what you do best and give you time to figure it out. To a very, very large extent, probably much larger than in other sports, luck plays a role in the NFL. It goes for coaches and players alike. It's why some guys will do incredible things in one place and then flop in the next. Their talents work in one system, with one set of personnel, but perhaps not so much in another. And it's all pretty intertwined. Sometimes a coach will do great things in one place and suck somewhere else. The examples are numerous, but I'll just throw out a few quick examples, one because it's unfolding before our very eyes today and the other because he's been mentioned: Mike Shanahan has a great O-line and the right personnel where his scheme looks unstoppable, and RB after RB pumps out 1,000-yard seasons, yet none of them really do anything anywhere else. Then Shanahan himself implodes in a different environment, with a different culture, different players, and a different ownership. Suddenly he doesn't look like a very good coach at all. Priest Holmes does nothing in Baltimore, then blows up in KC under a different scheme. It's all about timing, and being in the right place at the right time. Very few players and coaches are truly transcendent talents that would do reasonably well anywhere. I put Manning in that class. I put Belichick in that class. I think what I'm saying is that I can't argue with Brady's numbers or his rings, but there's part of me that isn't sure he's in that class.

Also, who gives a shit about Pro-Bowl appearances. Of all 4 major sport it is probably the 2nd least important All Star Game.

To echo Douglas' point a bit, Jordan was a great player, but no team really had an answer for Jackson's Triangle Offense. The same with Montana and Bill Walsh's West Coast Offense.

Or what could Belichick do without Brady? Off the top of my head, I don't think he's ever made the playoffs with a quarterback other than Brady, and he's coached some pretty good ones:

Bernie Kosar (1st round pick)
Drew Bledsoe (1st overall pick)
Vinny Testaverde (1st overall pick)

Missed the playoffs with all those guys...

You're right, as great as Coach B seems, Brady makes all the difference. Yeah, I know that they were 11-5 with Cassell. Cassell is pretty good too. Could some lame go 11-5 with the brilliant Coach B. Prolly knott!

Does no one give props to the fact that he had his knee ripped to shreds and two seasons later he is about to get the MVP?

Compared to Carson Palmer and Wes Welker (I have no idea how the hell Welker is playing at 100% after tearing his ACL in January), has this level of comeback been achieved?

The only thing I can compare to (and he won't get MVP) is Michael Vick. Then again, it wasn't injury hurting him. It was him injuring others..

...

Vick, IMO, has made a much bigger comeback than Brady. Brady's a pocket passer that has never relied on his mobility - his 40 time at the combine was 5.2 or something like that. Hurting his knee, while taking him out for a season, wasn't going to permanently hurt his ability to perform. Players suffer and recover from fairly serious injuries all the time in the NFL.

Vick, meanwhile, went to prison for 2+ years, declared bankruptcy, etc. and came back as a MUCH better quarterback than before his prison sentence.

None of which has anything to do with athletic caliber. It's not like Vick was confined to a 2x2 room and got fat while in prison.

"Manning - NEVER BEAT FLORIDA, NEVER WON SEC CHAMP, NEVER WON NCAA Champs - T Martin did it the next year with the same personnel.

2 great QBs. Manning is probably more talented but Brady is a gifted leader that has wone 3X the Superbowls of Manning.

I'm ok with this...for the record.