engagement rings - buy loose diamond or from "reputable" store

Originally Posted by tj100

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Don't forget that women compare. They also have studied rings a lot more closely than we have, and can ID the Tiffany/Cartier etc. one from a mile away.

BS

Originally Posted by gladhands

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This is not true. They can recognize certain signature styles, like Tiffany's bezel set, but those settings are readily available elsewhere.

I think this is where most guys make the mistake. Very similar settings are readily available elsewhere. But the ladies can tell the difference in the slightest details. Keep in mind, they've been studying and researching this topic for years.

I'll put it in Styleforum.net terms. If all your life you wanted a pair of black John Lobb Philip II's, and somebody on Pricescope.com convinces your girlfriend/wife that you won't be able to tell the difference between that and the 'very similar' Allen Edmonds Fifth Avenue (obviously purchased online as 'seconds'), how do you feel about wearing the AE's for the rest of your life?

I'm not saying its necessary to go the Tiffany/Cartier/Van Cleef route; I'm just pointing out that there are some people for whom this is important, and they can tell the difference. Whether it's important to you and your future fiancee, I have no idea. But you have to recognize that this is one particular purchase where 'bargain shopping' may not be in your best interest.

^ +1. In other words don't be a cheapskate. If you don't go to the wall for this, what will you go to the wall for?? A new TV?

Originally Posted by tj100

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I think this is where most guys make the mistake. Very similar settings are readily available elsewhere. But the ladies can tell the difference in the slightest details. Keep in mind, they've been studying and researching this topic for years.

I'll put it in Styleforum.net terms. If all your life you wanted a pair of black John Lobb Philip II's, and somebody on Pricescope.com convinces your girlfriend/wife that you won't be able to tell the difference between that and the 'very similar' Allen Edmonds Fifth Avenue (obviously purchased online as 'seconds'), how do you feel about wearing the AE's for the rest of your life?

I'm not saying its necessary to go the Tiffany/Cartier/Van Cleef route; I'm just pointing out that there are some people for whom this is important, and they can tell the difference. Whether it's important to you and your future fiancee, I have no idea. But you have to recognize that this is one particular purchase where 'bargain shopping' may not be in your best interest.

Your comparison doesn't make sense. The quality of a diamond is measured by the 4Cs and it's make. It doesn't matter who sells it. For what it's worth you can take a loose stone to Tiffany and have them set it in one of their settings. Going this route allows you to spend the money on buying a high quality stone without paying the premium price charged by these jewelers.

Originally Posted by Crane's

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Your comparison doesn't make sense. The quality of a diamond is measured by the 4Cs and it's make. It doesn't matter who sells it. For what it's worth you can take a loose stone to Tiffany and have them set it in one of their settings. Going this route allows you to spend the money on buying a high quality stone without paying the premium price charged by these jewelers.

You absolutely cannot take a loose stone to Tiffany and have them set it one of their settings. They view their stones (picked out by their buyers, etc.) to be critical to their brand and won't work on anything else.

I think the shoe example works pretty well. Like diamonds, you can grade calfskin - horween shell is horween shell, right (granted, not used in either the Philip or the Fifth Ave, but would presumably be used by both Lobb and AE)? The diamond itself may grade out the same, but the setting etc. is not the same. And your fiancee will know (whether that's a big deal or not is obviously between the two of you).

As far as the OP is concerned, at the $15K-$20K price point, I think you're probably better off going the online loose stone route. At Tiffany, you're going to be looking at a ~1 carat stone at the lower end of their quality range (which is still very good), or a <1 carat stone in the middle/higher end of the quality range (which is excellent, but at a certain point, size does matter).

I guess it depends on who you know whether or not you can get something done.

Again the shoe comparison does not work. All the value is in the stone (raw material) and not the handwork or lack thereof as in a shoe. These high end stores charge full retail and then some for materials along with premium labor rates for the work. Yeah are there people who drink the kool aid and don't care? Yep. Is it smart money or does it apply to most diamond buyers? Nope.

Just for snicks do you really think you can take a Tiffany ring to any other store or diamond buyer and get what you paid for or better yet a profit? Not in a million years. You'll most likely get an offer based on rap prices for the day. When it comes to diamonds I and many others couldn't care less where you bought it from. What matters is the 4 Cs and make. That's what determines it's value. Attention to these details is more important to a woman than what name is on the blue box.

I guess this all depends on the woman though. LOL. To some, all that matters is the box and what's inside doesn't matter at all. It could be a CZ engagement ring and they would be happy as can be.

Originally Posted by Crane's

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I guess it depends on who you know whether or not you can get something done.

Right.... Actually, that's probably true. If you walk in there with the Hope Diamond, they'll probably work with you on that. But given that none of the Tiffany stores (except HQ in NYC) do any work beyond polishing on-site (they all send everything back to NYC for work), they are remarkably consistent in their policies.

Originally Posted by Crane's

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Again the shoe comparison does not work. All the value is in the stone (raw material) and not the handwork or lack thereof as in a shoe. These high end stores charge full retail and then some for materials along with premium labor rates for the work. Yeah are there people who drink the kool aid and don't care? Yep. Is it smart money or does it apply to most diamond buyers? Nope.

I think we can both agree that what Lobb (and Tiffany) are primarily charging for is brand image, not quality. Similar quality can be achieved elsewhere at lower cost.

Originally Posted by Crane's

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Just for snicks do you really think you can take a Tiffany ring to any other store or diamond buyer and get what you paid for or better yet a profit? Not in a million years. You'll most likely get an offer based on rap prices for the day. When it comes to diamonds I and many others couldn't care less where you bought it from. What matters is the 4 Cs and make. That's what determines it's value. Attention to these details is more important to a woman than what name is on the blue box.

And do you really think that you paid actual "wholesale" for a diamond? Certainly lower markup, but anytime you buy a diamond, you're not going to be able to re-sell it at a profit. I agree that when it comes to diamonds, as a commodity, the 4Cs are the rule. Unfortunately, engagement rings are not a commodity (much as we might like them to be). It's true (and quite rational, IMHO) that you may not care where you bought it from. But your fiancee might. And it's really what SHE cares about that matters here. If it's meaningless to her and her friends (i.e. she gets no value from having a particular brand), then it's stupid to pay for it.

Originally Posted by Crane's

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I guess this all depends on the woman though. LOL. To some, all that matters is the box and what's inside doesn't matter at all. It could be a CZ engagement ring and they would be happy as can be.

Absolutely. Ultimately, if your fiancee isn't thrilled with whatever you put on her finger, you've got a problem. But some ladies put value in the brand name and brand experience, and it's important to not discount that.

Buy a Tiffany's box for 50$ and call it a day.

Originally Posted by chenc

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To me diamonds are suppose to be white. If I want warm- looking stone, there are plenty of other gemstones. Your wife will hate you if the stone is yellowish. Don't forget that women compare. I'd rather sacrifice size than quality. Try to get at least one carat if you can.
With your budget I wouldnt buy from Tiffany or Cartier. Spend your money on the stone not the box. She ain't gonna wear that box on her finger. And do get GIA or what's the other.

There's a difference between "warm" and "yellow." Some people just don't like the icy-white color of a D-E-F diamond and would rather have a warm white of a G-H-I diamond. Depends on skin tone to some degree too.

I actually tried out an M color diamond with strong blue fluorescence. It looked unbelievably good in sunlight, but you could see the yellow tint from the side and the setting I was planning on getting shows off the sides. I'd love to use that type of stone for earrings or a pendant though.

Originally Posted by tj100

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Absolutely. Ultimately, if your fiancee isn't thrilled with whatever you put on her finger, you've got a problem. But some ladies put value in the brand name and brand experience, and it's important to not discount that.

Hopefully someone who is about to propose will know his woman well enough to determine if she cares about the (stupid) brand premium. I wouldn't have been interested in a woman who did, so things worked out well for me.

I think most women really want a stone that looks good on the finger. Some will get into the certificate details, some are hung up on the brand name, but overall they just want their friends to say "WOW" when they see it.

Originally Posted by Gibonius

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I think most women really want a stone that looks good on the finger. Some will get into the certificate details, some are hung up on the brand name, but overall they just want their friends to say "WOW" when they see it.

This.

If she's that concerned with the name on the box, she's a princess.

Originally Posted by gladhands

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This.

If she's that concerned with the name on the box, she's a princess.

Agreed. But I think men (in general) underestimate women's ability to identify a diamond ring as that of a particular brand absent the box. Just because we can't tell them apart doesn't mean that they can't.

I actually disagree on "all they want is for it to look good on their finger". Why do they want it to look good on their finger? To impress people. If the ring looks good, AND they can further impress their friends with the fact that it came from Harry Winston, they'll take that too. That said, there are clearly some ladies who actually do not care if it looks good on their finger or not - you could give them a plastic banded CZ and they'd be thrilled. But for those who do care how it looks, they probably also care about where it came from (though the two factors may be of varying importance).

Originally Posted by tj100

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I think this is where most guys make the mistake. Very similar settings are readily available elsewhere. But the ladies can tell the difference in the slightest details. Keep in mind, they've been studying and researching this topic for years.

I'll put it in Styleforum.net terms. If all your life you wanted a pair of black John Lobb Philip II's, and somebody on Pricescope.com convinces your girlfriend/wife that you won't be able to tell the difference between that and the 'very similar' Allen Edmonds Fifth Avenue (obviously purchased online as 'seconds'), how do you feel about wearing the AE's for the rest of your life?

I'm not saying its necessary to go the Tiffany/Cartier/Van Cleef route; I'm just pointing out that there are some people for whom this is important, and they can tell the difference. Whether it's important to you and your future fiancee, I have no idea. But you have to recognize that this is one particular purchase where 'bargain shopping' may not be in your best interest.

This assumes the only two choices OP has are to either (i) buy a name-brand ring, or (ii) buy a loose stone and create a name-brand ring lookalike. However, I don't think anyone is suggesting OP buy a loose stone through PriceScope and then set it in a knock-off Tiffany/Cartier setting in an attempt to "fool" his GF into thinking it came from a big-name jeweler.

I think we can all agree that the stones, regardless of where they come from, will all be the same provided the criteria (cut, carat, clarity, etc) are all equal, i.e. it doesn't matter if OP buys a stone from WhiteFlash or Tiffanys if the specs are the same.

As for the setting, if the OP doesn't choose a setting that is a knock-off/copy of a proprietary/signature design, I don't see how your analogy would apply. For instance, let's say the OP chose a loose stone from an online vendor, and had it set in a Tacori setting. Would anyone really say that that would be comparable to getting an Allen Edmond vs. a Lobb?

Originally Posted by Kyoung05

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This assumes the only two choices OP has are to either (i) buy a name-brand ring, or (ii) buy a loose stone and create a name-brand ring lookalike. However, I don't think anyone is suggesting OP buy a loose stone through PriceScope and then set it in a knock-off Tiffany/Cartier setting in an attempt to "fool" his GF into thinking it came from a big-name jeweler.
Correct; you didn't quote the text that I was responding to: "They can recognize certain signature styles, like Tiffany's bezel set, but those settings are readily available elsewhere." This is suggesting that one buy a loose stone and then acquire a similar setting to imitate the branded design. The only point that I'm trying to make is that there are women in the world who would prefer a "brand name" ring, and in those cases, spending more (or buying "less" ring) is probably the right move.

Originally Posted by tj100

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Agreed. But I think men (in general) underestimate women's ability to identify a diamond ring as that of a particular brand absent the box. Just because we can't tell them apart doesn't mean that they can't. I actually disagree on "all they want is for it to look good on their finger". Why do they want it to look good on their finger? To impress people. If the ring looks good, AND they can further impress their friends with the fact that it came from Harry Winston, they'll take that too. That said, there are clearly some ladies who actually do not care if it looks good on their finger or not - you could give them a plastic banded CZ and they'd be thrilled. But for those who do care how it looks, they probably also care about where it came from (though the two factors may be of varying importance).
I don't know any women who would be able to recognize brands like that, but I don't move in "those circles." Your mileage may vary.