or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › General Chat › engagement rings - buy loose diamond or from "reputable" store
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

engagement rings - buy loose diamond or from "reputable" store - Page 13

post #181 of 213
A rose is a rose is a rose.

What is a Kay Diamond ring in this box?
post #182 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Hatter View Post
Fair enough, but I bet you that a ton of people have succeeded in passing off cheap or fake jewelery by putting it into a brand name store box to impress their girlfriend.

As an interesting aside, I was at a seminar a few years ago with somebody from internal audit at T&Co, and their biggest issue was maintaining internal controls over the boxes and tissue paper. Seriously. The jewelry they had well-established practices for, but e-bay had made the boxes worth real $$$ all of a sudden, and they were having trouble getting ahead of it.
post #183 of 213
The fake box is a lie. If you NEED to lie you certainly have issues. Either buy the ring or don't but don't lie about it.
post #184 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by tj100 View Post
As an interesting aside, I was at a seminar a few years ago with somebody from internal audit at T&Co, and their biggest issue was maintaining internal controls over the boxes and tissue paper. Seriously. The jewelry they had well-established practices for, but e-bay had made the boxes worth real $$$ all of a sudden, and they were having trouble getting ahead of it.
post #185 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post
It seems like you don't want to look at both sides.

For the 3rd time, Ill say that there are different kinds of people.

Cant you see that some people place value on the Cartier name?

I have known very rich people that have bought at Cartier. And I have known very rich people that think that is crazy and have shopped for a deal.

Though not extremely rich, here is a well off friend of mine that chose the deal over the Cartier name ( post 120 ). I would have to check, but I am pretty sure Cartier would sell a GIA 2.55 Ct. XXX G, VVS2 Round stone. And Tacori definitely would have sold the setting that was copied. One definite difference is that my friend sent about $25,000 instead of the $45,000 or so that he would have spent at Cartier and Tacori.

Is he smarter or better off? That is for he and his wife to decide.

Also, brand name Jewelers at the local mall generally carry average, commercial stuff. When you start talking about sizable perfect stones, the choices are few.

You can go to a famous store. HW, Cartier, Graff, and maybe a few more. Or go to the guy in Europe. Or how about an auction. That should show what the real market price actually is.

Here is that Ruth Madoff ring

http://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.co...ring.jpg?w=420

It is a 10 & 1/2 Carat Emerald cut and it sold for $550,000 with a pre-auction estimate of $300,000. And I believe it was a just G, SI-1. You can bet that representatives of the major name stores were aware of the auction but they thought the price had gotten too high.

I wonder where Bernie M. bought it?

But do you acknowledge that some stuff can only be found through that guy in Europe or some other private jeweler who has a collection that insanely rich connoisseurs seek out. I am talking about jewelery that comes with a price tag of many millions.
post #186 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouttsClient View Post
The fake box is a lie.

If you NEED to lie you certainly have issues.

Either buy the ring or don't but don't lie about it.

People do it and that's why the brand name is just an illusion. Why do you think people sell the boxes online and other people buy them? Welcome to Earth, people lie.
post #187 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by tj100 View Post
As an interesting aside, I was at a seminar a few years ago with somebody from internal audit at T&Co, and their biggest issue was maintaining internal controls over the boxes and tissue paper. Seriously. The jewelry they had well-established practices for, but e-bay had made the boxes worth real $$$ all of a sudden, and they were having trouble getting ahead of it.

I am not surprised at all. Look I know WE all want to give our wives what they want, but most guys would rather spend as little as possible if they can. So if they can buy a cheap ring, put it into a Tiffany box and fool their fiance, they are gonna do it.
post #188 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Hatter View Post
But do you acknowledge that some stuff can only be found through that guy in Europe or some other private jeweler who has a collection that insanely rich connoisseurs seek out. I am talking about jewelery that comes with a price tag of many millions.
Yeah, of course. And do you acknowledge that when owners become sellers they want to maximize their returns. This will generally be through an auction or as you say some private jeweler ( or broker is a preferred term ). Even a fine store might auction a piece rather than wait to sell it themselves. And it it not unheard of that someone might consign a spectacular item to a store like Graff, for a public or private sale. Especially if it were bought there. And I am sure that Graff has treasures in their safes that they show and suggest to Russian Oligarch and Saudi Royalty types that they don't show to ordinary customers. BTW: This, I am not surprised at all. Look I know WE all want to give our wives what they want, but most guys would rather spend as little as possible if they can. So if they can buy a cheap ring, put it into a Tiffany box and fool their fiance, they are gonna do it. is ridiculous and I assume you are joking. Believe it or not there are many ( maybe more than 1/2 ) that want to start a marriage based on trust and honesty. Either you are trolling or way out there.
post #189 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post
I am far from an expert and I am most assuredly not a gemologist. But I have some friends that are pretty high up in Houston Diamond circles and I trade diamonds and gold a little bit but it is not my business.

...

But while present day DeBeers is still a giant in the industry, it is no longer even close to a monopoly in the 21st century. It seems like competition should bring prices down considerably but it has not yet in this first decade of the 21st century.


Excellent post. So since you buy and sell diamonds, at least a little, do you think it is an open market? My impression was that the diamond market was artificially inflated by the DeBeers monopoly. Are you saying that has changed? Is it really a free market now?

Look at these articles from the 80s and 90s.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ipts/1209.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-diamond/4575/
post #190 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouttsClient View Post
The fake box is a lie.

If you NEED to lie you certainly have issues.

Either buy the ring or don't but don't lie about it.

Seriously.
post #191 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal View Post
Seriously.

If you need clarification, I didn't personally do this.
post #192 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorsod View Post
Excellent post. So since you buy and sell diamonds, at least a little, do you think it is an open market? My impression was that the diamond market was artificially inflated by the DeBeers monopoly. Are you saying that has changed? Is it really a free market now?

Look at these articles from the 80s and 90s.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ipts/1209.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-diamond/4575/

Thanks, I will read both links tomorrow.

My impression is that the market is less artificially inflated than it was in the 80s and 90s when DeBeers was much stronger. More players and more diversity among diamond producers now.

And while it is a free market mostly, IMO it is closer to the free market of oil than to the free market of hi tech.

IE: In my opinion, for what it is worth, there are still forces that are trying to prop up prices more than a totally free market would indicate. Oil is like that, though not as bad as in 1974 when OPEC was King.

High tech is less manipulated and more laissez faire. As I had said, there is no shortage of commercial and industrial grade diamonds and prices very well might dip. True gem quality big stuff is rare and not becoming more common, and consequently should maintain its value or go up.
post #193 of 213
This is an interesting thread about different opinions for investing in diamonds (apparently from pros). http://www.pricescope.com/forum/rock...ent-t4346.html
post #194 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal View Post
You're amazing. You can't just call a mulligan can you? Whatever. Everything looses value, even diamond rings, given enough time. But that's not what you said, you said every sub 30k car is a money pit within a few years. The suggestion being that a super-30k car would not be. And in normal speech "within a few years" means less than 10 and likely less than five. And that is simply not true. trying to add qualifications later does not change anything.
But I give up.



It is just you. Or at least it's not me. Or more importantly her. We both think that the typical "big ass stone sitting high and naked on a band" look is not for us.

Don't let the turkeys get you down.

We designed our own rings with a local jeweler who does a lot of custom work. No large stones of any kind (just a few tiny diamonds). Did not spend thousands. We were so glad we went this route. We loved having rings that no one else does...rings that truly reflected US and our relationships and were not some ginormous rock meant to impress others. Much more meaningful.

Plus, the designing and working with the jeweler was just plain FUN. I would highly recommend the experience.
post #195 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post
It doesn't matter what mine a diamond comes from or who gets first pick. The quality and cut of the stone are what count. Harry Winston does not have a monopoly on top-quality diamonds.

The 4 C's are very rudimentary. You need to learn about cut and proportions.

Yes, I'm very well aware that that 4C's are the very baseline of rudimentary understanding.

Since I was using the selected HW ring as my basis for comparison against other wholesaler/retailer/independent jeweler carried stones, I meant I was keeping the baseline variables of the 4Cs constant across the board (1.25ct, RB, F, VS1). Then to narrow the field to compare to the HW stone, I filtered only GIA XXX, HCA<=1.6 (score of the HW) notwithstanding weird outliers. Of course the other variables of no culet, no fluorescence, thin-med faceted girdle, etc were held constant for comparison as well.

I wasn't concerned with H&A since I didn't feel the need to pay the premium for perfect optical symmetry and HW didn't have Firescope/Sarin/OGI/etc data available for comparison.

With those quantitative parameters set, I compared the qualitative parameters of the position, size, number, and type(s) of inclusions since this was uncontrolled subvariable within the spectrum of the clarity grading. When I previously expressed that the HW was the cleanest VS1 I've seen (searching over the past 4 months) all other variables held constant, the HW stone only had a couple of pinpoints in the crown area (none in the table) that were barely even visible with a loupe. It must be at the borderline between VS1 and VVS2 since it contained only pinpoints. I'm guessing it was the number of pinpoints that must have pushed it out of the maximim threshold for VVS2 qualification.

There were no stones avail from any online, mom&pop, other designer retailer that were better (variables constant) and the ones that came close were about 30% less expensive. Factoring in the cost of the handmade HW platinum setting (me and my fiancee both fell in love with the delicate double 4claw/talon prong that I've yet to see any independent jeweler replicate with comparable precision), the designer markup of the HW ring became further minimized. Other qualitative factors of the fire, scintillation, refractive colors spit out by the stone, and general "sparkliness" were also pretty much unmatched.

Granted there may be some measure of psychological justification I may have sold myself to minimize the markup (which was much less than expected), at the end of the day I came in with a budget I was prepared to spend irrespective of where I was going to purchase from (someone can feel free to poke holes in my methodology, I'm sure I must have missed something). Feeling somewhat informed on the various facets of diamond evaluation, I felt more than satisfied proposing with a designer ring (at the top of Clayton Peak at the Brighton Ski Resort in UT!).

(and if anyone's wondering, yes I do conduct scientific research for a living so that contributes to my analretentiveness to detail).
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Chat
Styleforum › Forums › General › General Chat › engagement rings - buy loose diamond or from "reputable" store