• Hi, I am the owner and main administrator of Styleforum. If you find the forum useful and fun, please help support it by buying through the posted links on the forum. Our main, very popular sales thread, where the latest and best sales are listed, are posted HERE

    Purchases made through some of our links earns a commission for the forum and allows us to do the work of maintaining and improving it. Finally, thanks for being a part of this community. We realize that there are many choices today on the internet, and we have all of you to thank for making Styleforum the foremost destination for discussions of menswear.
  • This site contains affiliate links for which Styleforum may be compensated.
  • We would like to welcome House of Huntington as an official Affiliate Vendor. Shop past season Drake's, Nigel Cabourn, Private White V.C. and other menswear luxury brands at exceptional prices below retail. Please visit the Houise of Huntington thread and welcome them to the forum.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

    Styleforum is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Can leather be ethical?

zjpj83

Distinguished Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
9,425
Reaction score
28
Originally Posted by Ianiceman
I haven't eaten meat for 25 years but have nine leather jackets/coats and several shoes all leather. Not quite sure where my ethics are, I think factory farming is a disgusting mess but I also think cows are one of the dumbest creatures on the planet who wouldn't last ten minutes without humans to protect them from wolves. They contribute to global warming with their methane farts and don't even have the sense to lift their tails, just ******** all over their back legs the dirty dirty bastards.

I LOLed
 

ben39

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
71
Reaction score
0
I don't have a problem with say, somebody hunting a deer, eating it and then tanning the hide. Are all hides obtained from factory farms?
 

Ianiceman

Timed Out
Timed Out
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,651
Reaction score
495
Originally Posted by Chargersfan
As someone who works in Public Health, and has visited several working slaughterhouses I think it's ethical...as long as you view eating animals as ethical. Spendling some time on the killing floor I can assure you that they use all parts of the animal. And I do mean ALL parts.

Enjoy your hotdogs and hamburgers....

nest.gif


This is the main reason I gave up eating meat. There are parts of any animals I prefer not to eat.
 

Grenadier

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
693
Reaction score
13
I am generally of the opinion that it is highly unethical-dare I say, immoral-not to wear leather.
 

stevent

Distinguished Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
9,564
Reaction score
1,483
Well it all depends on context. Personally I think leather is.

But let's say you can choose canvas shoes or leather shoes. The leather shoes last 10 years, the canvas last 3. What is the effect on the environment in terms of the canvas production/shipping/marketing/selling/waste vs. the pair of leather shoes you still have?

You could go on with water bottles. You just went to REI and bought a few nalgenes and siggs. But you really only need one (three if you actually hike/trek). But by buying a few extra, you defeated the purpose of getting a reusable bottle in the first place. It's like recycling. Recycling is good, but if you reduced your use in the first place, then recycling is a waste. And think about the truck that picks up all your bottles, then the factory that processes them, then the manufacturing of new products, the shipping of the new products, the marketing on the fact that the new product is made from recycled materials and on and on and on.

I enjoy eating meat and wearing leather oxfords/boat shoes/sneakers and gloves. But ethical? Can't decide.
 

i10casual

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
678
Reaction score
29
I work in a factory where we mainly use leather. I couldn't decide on an answer myself so I spoke with a lots of monastics (I'm also a buddhist layman). I sucks to be killing **** and eating it. But it is part of our culture and we do use all of that animal. You have to pick your fights and I prefer leather shoes.
 

Tck13

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
5,296
Reaction score
62
Originally Posted by Kent Wang
This is all conjecture on my part, but I would guess that all leather (excluding exotics like reptiles) is a byproduct of the meat industry. I've never heard of anyone cultivating cattle specifically for their leather. I would guess that the best leather is simply selected from the massive amount of hides that are produced by the beef industry.

It is even possible that non-factory-farmed hides are simply discarded if it's too much trouble to send them to a hide processor.

I have no qualms with eating or wearing any kind of animal product, but I find it interesting to know about.


This.
 

thunderthighs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Messages
93
Reaction score
1
I hear shell cordovan (the US made stuff anyway, not sure about Japan) is harvested only from horses that have died of natural causes. Probably about as ethical as leather can get, if you're concerned about such things.
 

grassfedcat

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
i don't eat meat but lots of people still do and leather winds up going to waste if it isn't used for clothes, accessories, upholstery etc. so i don't see why using leather products is such a big deal. on the other hand i try to avoid leather just because i want to show myself and others that non-leather products work just as well and we don't have to rely on animal products!
 

Avocat

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
342
Reaction score
3
Inuit eat seal meat, the fur making for weather-proof coats and boots, with deer and buffalo long hunted for food, their hides likewise used for everything from teepees and drums, to clothing, etc. In South America, the indigineous peoples eat reptiles, with horses used for boots, etc. In the Philippines, they eat dog (not German Shepherds, so .... ), with kangaroo meat and hides being important to aboriginees of Australia.

That we humans 'engineered' cows via domestic farming (i.e., they didn't exist before we created them via selective breeding, etc.) for human consumption, using the hides for boots/shoes and coats, etc. is not unethical. Indigenous cultures (aboriginals, native North Americans, etc.) have and continue to hunt for food, and wearing the skins since time immemorial, be it for clothing or adornment, thus using the whole animal. Provided the meat is eaten, it's not unethical.
 

in stitches

Stylish Dinosaur
Spamminator Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
66,397
Reaction score
33,106
Originally Posted by Ianiceman
I haven't eaten meat for 25 years but have nine leather jackets/coats and several shoes all leather. Not quite sure where my ethics are, I think factory farming is a disgusting mess but I also think cows are one of the dumbest creatures on the planet who wouldn't last ten minutes without humans to protect them from wolves. They contribute to global warming with their methane farts and don't even have the sense to lift their tails, just ******** all over their back legs the dirty dirty bastards.

Originally Posted by zjpj83
I LOLed

as did i

i beg of you SF dont get all PC on me im having too much fun leave ethics for some other forum
 

ysc

Distinguished Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
2,262
Reaction score
8
Originally Posted by Kent Wang
This is all conjecture on my part, but I would guess that all leather (excluding exotics like reptiles) is a byproduct of the meat industry. I've never heard of anyone cultivating cattle specifically for their leather.
I don't have a reference for you, but I remember researching an essay on a linked topic a couple of years ago and found that some ' meat' animals are is raised specifically for their skin, the meat gets used for something - cheap burgers, pet food - but the meat is a by-product in this case. It is kind of irrelevant either way. We don't need to eat meat, we don't need to wear leather. Selling the hides for leather will be factored into a farmers economics, even if it is only a small fraction of the cost the farmer gets per animal by buying it you are 'contributing' to the death of an animal. I am ok with that. I am not aware of any standards for leather products relating to the quality of life of the animals used to make them, I would be interested in them though. The suffering many industrially farmed animals go through during their life kind of outweighs, in my mind anyway, their fairly quick deaths.
 

Kent Wang

Affiliate Vendor
Affiliate Vendor
Dubiously Honored
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
5,841
Reaction score
1,492
Originally Posted by ysc
I don't have a reference for you, but I remember researching an essay on a linked topic a couple of years ago and found that some ' meat' animals are is raised specifically for their skin, the meat gets used for something - cheap burgers, pet food - but the meat is a by-product in this case.
Does it specifically refer to cattle? I could see it for reptiles, possibly other animals.
Originally Posted by ysc
Selling the hides for leather will be factored into a farmers economics, even if it is only a small fraction of the cost the farmer gets per animal by buying it you are 'contributing' to the death of an animal.
This is a very good point, though would not apply in cases where the skin is discarded, which I wildly conjecture, with no evidence at all, may be the case for non-factory-farmed cattle and pigs.
 

Featured Sponsor

How important is full vs half canvas to you for heavier sport jackets?

  • Definitely full canvas only

    Votes: 45 40.5%
  • Half canvas is fine

    Votes: 44 39.6%
  • Really don't care

    Votes: 5 4.5%
  • Depends on fabric

    Votes: 18 16.2%
  • Depends on price

    Votes: 25 22.5%

Forum statistics

Threads
504,437
Messages
10,573,977
Members
223,697
Latest member
Martinezeye
Top