Wing or Turndown Collar?

Ianiceman · Dec 16, 2010

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

^^ I'm with you on this one, grouchy old man.

Hey! Not so much of the 'old' if you don't mind, Gramps!

Roger Everett · Dec 16, 2010

Originally Posted by Ivar

White tie = Wing collar
Black tie = Turndown collar

To add to this --tux w/ tails -- wing collar always
std. suit type tux -- Very fancy / formal wedding -- wing collar
not real fancy wedding -- turndown collar

Generally speaking a wing collar is the call for your more fancy / formal events -- state dinners, opening night of the opera / ballet season, formal weddings. If you're a democrat -- the inauguration party in January 2013.

Roger

F. Corbera · Dec 16, 2010

Originally Posted by Ianiceman

Hey! Not so much of the 'old' if you don't mind, Gramps!

Black tie (and on occasion, white tie and morning dress) "rules" have an avid and wide circle of non-practicing Internet advisors. The traditional rules are great, and like mid-century Modern furniture, it's easy to learn the code. These rules were made with the assumption of a general interest in jubilant conformity contributing to fun and visually egalitarian events. I would love it if it were still true, and am old enough and socially marsupialed enough to remember when it was like that in some circles. My general advice for modern guys uncertain about black tie is to dress comfortably, simply, conservatively, and with an attention to making sure everything fits. If you ask questions, you are still too unsophisticated...and most importantly, so too likely are your hosts and fellow celebrants...to make worrying about a wing collar worthwhile.

Sazerac · Dec 16, 2010

Originally Posted by Roger Everett

To add to this --tux w/ tails -- wing collar always
std. suit type tux -- Very fancy / formal wedding -- wing collar
not real fancy wedding -- turndown collar

Generally speaking a wing collar is the call for your more fancy / formal events -- state dinners, opening night of the opera / ballet season, formal weddings. If you're a democrat -- the inauguration party in January 2013.

Roger

This might be a good time to slip into that flame marsupialant tux.

F. Corbera · Dec 16, 2010

Originally Posted by Roger Everett

To add to this --tux w/ tails -- wing collar always std. suit type tux -- Very fancy / formal wedding -- wing collar not real fancy wedding -- turndown collar Generally speaking a wing collar is the call for your more fancy / formal events -- state dinners, opening night of the opera / ballet season, formal weddings. If you're a democrat -- the inauguration party in January 2013. Roger

Admit it: most days, you're in shorts and a t-shirt, down there in Kissimmee. I'll let others lay into you about the "tux with tails" advice.

Roger Everett · Dec 16, 2010

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

Admit it: most days, you're in shorts and a t-shirt, down there in Kissimmee.

No shorts and t shirts lately. Been in the 40's and lower past week. Either stay home or put on everything you've got. We get uncontrolable shivers below 45.

Roger

P.S. Atleast I don't mind putting a real name/ location on my tag and signing my name to what I say.

F. Corbera · Dec 16, 2010

Originally Posted by Roger Everett

P.S. Atleast I don't mind putting a real name/ location on my tag and signing my name to what I say.

I'm shy.

ziggyosk · Dec 17, 2010

thanks for the input everyone, it seems turndown it is....does it matter that im wearing a tux with Peak Lapels?

jasonmarshalljazz · Dec 17, 2010

Originally Posted by TonyThe Tailor

Shawl Collar = Turndown
Peak Lapel = Wing (Tunnel)
Notch = don't wear

Shawl Collar = Turndown
Peak Lapel = Turndown
White tie = Wing
Notch = Grow up, loser!

Ianiceman · Dec 17, 2010

Originally Posted by ziggyosk

thanks for the input everyone, it seems turndown it is....does it matter that im wearing a tux with Peak Lapels?

Nope.

Peak lapels evolved from formal tailed coats while shawl collars evolved from less formal smoking jackets, so while it could be argued that peak lapels have a slightly more formal heritage, nowadays, due to eddies in the evolutionary space-time continuum of formal wear evolution, each could be said to be equally formal if done right and really no longer bear any defined association to collar style.

Notch lapels, which were retro-adapted from lounge suits, seem like they were popular some years ago but have more recently fallen out of favour and I (and the honorable gentleman above me in this thread) seem to have absolutely no problem with that!

F. Corbera · Dec 17, 2010

In the earliest periods of black tie, stepped or notch lapels were common. If you think about an early term for a tuxedo, a "dress lounge," you might understand why.

Between then and the present, there was consolidation around peaked lapels, a consolidation challenged by the imposition of mass RTW patterns for suits on to cheap dinner suits for rent or sake.

comrade · Dec 17, 2010

Originally Posted by F. Corbera

In the earliest periods of black tie, stepped or notch lapels were common. If you think about an early term for a tuxedo, a "dress lounge," you might understand why.

Between then and the present, there was consolidation around peaked lapels, a consolidation challenged by the imposition of mass RTW patterns for suits on to cheap dinner suits for rent or sake.

I must be from the earliest periods. My Paul Stuart Tux dates from 1965 and has
notch lapels, flap pockets, natural shoulders, and a center vent. Miracle of miracles,
it still fits (more or less). At the time it was purchased, the standard Brooks model
had peak lapels and, besom like pockets, similar to those on the US Navy officer's uniform.

comrade · Dec 17, 2010

Originally Posted by ziggyosk

My sister is getting married and I am trying to figure out if I should wear a Wing Collar or Turndown..... I am wearing a black tux with a black bow tie. What should my collar be??

Wing collars are reserved for Nazi Admirals or their direct descendants:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Raeder

Gus · Dec 17, 2010

Turndown. A wing collar may look too showy or trendy. The turndown will be classic.

Ianiceman · Dec 17, 2010

Does anyone ever stray from strict black and white?
We all know there are some aberrations out there. I suppose I couldnforgive a red bow tie at a Christmas party and even the great Bernard Roetzel advocates a red silk pocket square to add a glimpse of colour.

I get so few opportunities to don the penguin I tend to play it straight downthe middle. If I had several events per year I could see myself shaking things up a little bit but no Oscar style freak shows.

Wing or Turndown Collar?

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