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Jon Green Bespoke Suit - Page 5

post #61 of 102
I realize you view your tailor's work as art, but I think that frame of mind distracts from some very real flaws. I doubt many of these are due to your preference or the result of his purposeful judgment. Please see the below:

mmkn_foofed.jpg

I tried to maintain as much of your selected style for the suit as possible, while correcting what I consider objective problem areas. I've never liked how your Green suits came out, and could never quite name why I disliked them so much until I started working on this Foofing. The main issue is the way the chest and sleeves are cut: it always looks like your arms are caving in on your torso. I don't know what the technical cause is, but I've illustrated how it should look. Notice, the shoulder point has not changed, nor has the waist of the jacket. Yet, your physique looks much improved nonetheless.

It goes without say that I think your gorge is way too high. It would be high on anybody, but you are clearly very tall, so the effect is much exacerbated. It doesn't help that your patch pockets are so high up from the hem of the jacket. Alone, they would look odd. But combined with the high gorge, high breast pocket, and the high buttoning point, it looks like your jacket is being perpetually tugged upward by an invisible hand.

In the edited version, I wound up narrowing the lapels. However, that was just easier to do while changing the gorge. The old width would have been okay, too.

Ultimately, the pieces just don't come together right. It looks like tailoring by parts assembly. I think you can do better and should demand so of your tailor.
post #62 of 102
Thread Starter 
^ smile.gif, I'll have to tell my wife not to hold the camera so low and shoot upward. A few of the other shots in this thread give a better idea.

I'm divulging too much information here, but Mr. Green and I spent some time in 2005 cutting out cardboard patterns of what we thought my lapels should look like for notch and peak.

The only modification for 2012 is that the lapel and collar seam could be less steep, but no change in design or where it sits.

At some point one has to accept one's physique with bespoke and not enter the realm of over-compensation and self-consciousness.

I see more of me on the left, and me wearing an "armour" on the right.

- M
post #63 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grammaton Cleric View Post

Where is all this love for Green coming from? That honestly looks like a rather ordinary MTM suit job. Shoulders are a bit much, length is too long and the pants look awful. More importantly, the silhouette is unimpressive, and the style boring.
I'm not impressed.
Yes!
Poor tailoring.
post #64 of 102
Thread Starter 
^ Pray tell . . .

- M
post #65 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmkn View Post

At some point one has to accept one's physique with bespoke and not enter the realm of over-compensation and self-consciousness.
I see more of me on the left, and me wearing an "armour" on the right.
- M

I understand this principle and agree with it. However, I don't think you or your tailor implemented it well.

It's odd to talk about the need to accurately reflect your natural physique when you chose roped, pagoda shoulders and sky-piercingly high-gorged lapels. They are highly stylized, highly artificial design choices that do not reflect anybody's physique--and they are extremely conspicuous, even when well-integrated. The moment you chose to include them in your suit was the same moment you should have realized that the suit must be styled to comport with them and that they undermine any possibility your suit will look "natural." This impossibility is not necessarily a bad thing, but a fact your tailor should have grappled with rather than ignored.

Also, I fail to see how the odd pocket placement and strange flaring of the jacket at the hips (present in nearly all your photos) could serve any aesthetic purpose at all. I think your tailor tried very hard to hear what you wanted, but didn't exert enough professional or artistic discretion to properly counsel you or execute with finesse.
post #66 of 102
Thread Starter 
^ It's probably wise that you don't go to him, it wouldn't work out.

Back to the foofed photos . . .

To my eyes the foofed photo looks more like RTW, as it idealizes the outer appearance of my body. As said, I do not recognize myself in the foofed suit.

- M
post #67 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmkn View Post

^ It's probably wise that you don't go to him, it wouldn't work out.
Back to the foofed photos . . .
To my eyes the foofed photo looks more like RTW, as it idealizes the outer appearance of my body. As said, I do not recognize myself in the foofed suit.
- M

I have no interest in working with him, and I have nothing to gain or lose by discussing his work. The question is: what was the thought process behind integrating all these oddball parts?

I assume that the pagoda shoulder line, roped sleeveheads, and high gorge are not default Jon Green features (I suppose you will tell me he does nothing by default . . .). So, you must have told him that you wanted those things, or at the very least agreed with him on them after some discussion. After that point, how was the cut of the suit determined? Did you talk about wanting an elongated sack, or did he simply do it of his own accord? What about the patch pockets? Did you say you wanted them three inches above the hem, or did he? Did they just come out that way?

Let me put it to you another way. We can always debate where the line should fall between natural and artificial expression in how something is tailored. However, I think there is much less room to argue over when a garment is executed as according to basic competence. As discussed above, the parts of your suit may be perfectly legitimate choices in and of themselves, but are nonetheless erroneously implemented. These are flaws that neither further the expression of your natural physique, nor add to any synthetic ideal of the male form, nor have ever been cited as positive features by anybody else in regards to any other suit made by any other tailor.

I do see the man. But he is wearing a badly tailored suit.
post #68 of 102
This thread is baffling
post #69 of 102
Thread Starter 
^^ I am sorry but you are trying too hard to make a Paulina Porizkova into a Christy Brinkley, it just won't work . . . Try as you may with your puppeteer smile.gif.

- M
post #70 of 102

A compromise between original and foofed works for me. Lower button stance and moving the patch pockets down cannot be anything but beneficial to the overall presentation. Personally, I like the attempt at a high gorge - but combined with a lowered buttoning point, I'm not sure what becomes of the lapel widths and how they will interplay with the look - and neither do I wish to find out via photoshop!

 

Perhaps a snapshot taken at a higher angle may bring more justice to the cut, before further discussion takes place.

post #71 of 102
Thread Starter 
^ Wise you are lysandar. Only fools would conclude based on photos alone. Bespoke is a three dimensional experience. Fabrics can take a life of their own. Clients can fluctuate in physique. Tailors have distinctive signatures. And so on . . .

Perhaps one evening my wife would be inspired for more photos.

- M
post #72 of 102
M -- the impression is consistent between all the photos you've posted over the years.
post #73 of 102
Thread Starter 
^ So is mine smile.gif.

- M
post #74 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

This thread is baffling

While always wary of the Emperor's new clothes, this thread is starting to remind me of the blind men and the elephant.

Photos and beliefs based on photos can be extremely narrow minded, but stubborn the "wise" men will try to be.

Human beings do really operate on consistency loops, yet calcification truly is the end point of life (e.g. rigor mortis).

- M
post #75 of 102
Double M, me thinks the issue is you're wearing trousers with the jacket. Kinda throws everything off from what we are used to seeing.
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