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OFFICIAL Game of Thrones Thread - Page 154

post #2296 of 4852
Piob hit the nail on the head. Being a skillful rider or swordsman is pretty meaningless when you're surrounded by the likes of Cersei, Varys, Littlefinger, etc.
post #2297 of 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Version 7 View Post

Piob hit the nail on the head. Being a skillful rider or swordsman is pretty meaningless when you're surrounded by the likes of Cersei, Varys, Littlefinger, etc.

LOL Cersei politically adept.

It seems to me that the combination players are most successful - both have military leadership skills and political acumen.
Tywin Lannister
Tyrion Lannister
Mace Tyrell
Doran Martell
Mance Rayder
Roose Bolton
Wyman Manderly

Varys and Littlefinger require others to win the battles, so they are always at risk from that angle.

And my wildcard character who is definitely martial, but unclear politically- Randyll Tarly
post #2298 of 4852
Varys is a bit of a separate case.

The Tyrells, Tywin Lannister, Littlefinger are clearly quite political and it's quite in contrast with the Starks, but I think Varys is operating on a different dimension.

He's not seeking to improve his standing or power.
post #2299 of 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by scurvyfreedman View Post

LOL Cersei politically adept.

I haven't finished reading all of the books yet but is there something that I'm missing? She may let her emotions get the better of her at times but basic understanding of how the game is played coupled with her lofty position/name demonstrate she poses quite a threat for the uninitiated.
post #2300 of 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Version 7 View Post

I haven't finished reading all of the books yet but is there something that I'm missing? She may let her emotions get the better of her at times but basic understanding of how the game is played coupled with her lofty position/name demonstrate she poses quite a threat for the uninitiated.

Let's just work with what's been on screen and off through the end of Clash of Kings to avoid spoilers. What has she done?

She outsmarted Ned Stark and had him arrested before he could leave KL and throw his support to Stannis. But, it backfired on her b/c she didn't control her son and he beheaded Ned, leading to the Northern Rebellion in which much of the Westerlands was pillaged.

She dismisses Ser Barristan losing a great ally to the Throne and giving him to Dany.

She issued absurd declarations requiring Tywin to send Tyrion to KL to become Hand of the King. Tyrion totally dominates her at Court, giving her the shits in a critical situation to take her out of commission. Tyrion brokers Myrcella's marriage behind her back and she loses control over one of her children. Tyrion steals Tommen away before the Battle of the Blackwater as insurance for himself against Cersei. Cersei also hires the Kettleblacks to be her personal guard, appoints one to the Kingsguard, and has no idea of their background or loyalties. They are bought as spies by at least Tyrion though ACoK. She also called Joffrey back from the city walls which almost lost the battle, but for her father and Mace Tyrell's attack to Stannis' rear.
post #2301 of 4852
^ Very good points. Although, at the end of the day, she is in a much better position than she was last season compared to Tyrion (who despite being leagues ahead of her intellectually, is pretty much an outcast at this point and would be dead if not for Podrick).
post #2302 of 4852
Thread Starter 
Whether or not one political person ultimately succeeds or fails does not remove the motif. GRR has not finished the series yet so who knows? Maybe the virtuous and non political eventually triumph. Does not change the underlying tension.
post #2303 of 4852
Well, she did manage to raise up the current king of westeros despite the fact that he is a purebred lannister.

And then end the lives of people who were figuring out her secret...and then end the life of Robert.
post #2304 of 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post

who, Theon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by worakl View Post

Joff.

This confirms that he's super smart. He understands he's a suck actor and should do something else. I agree he's infuriating to look at, but it doesn't mean he plays the role well. He adds no depth whatsoever.

The show is harder to follow than ever. I never read these books, so really I just take it one scene at a time and try to figure out all the names as I go. It's pretty impossible though. What they should do is cut out many of these plot lines, or at least gloss over them, focus on a few major ones. What they're doing now is trying to give all these plot lines equal share, all it's doing is making muddy water. You just can't follow what's going on here.
post #2305 of 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post

Well, she did manage to raise up the current king of westeros despite the fact that he is a purebred lannister.

And then end the lives of people who were figuring out her secret...and then end the life of Robert.

Sitting on the Iron Throne is far from being King of the Andals, the Rhyonar, and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm. He's got the Westerlands (although Robb is sacking them) and Crowlands under his control. The Reach is loyal, but only since Renly's death. And, the Stormlands are only loyal since the Battle of the Blackwater. Dorne and the Vale haven't committed support to either side and are basically ignoring the Iron Throne. Meanwhile, the North, Iron Islands, Riverlands, and Dragonstone are all in open rebellion.

And, Stannis is quite aware of her secret... he's not dead, and he's been publicizing it widely.
post #2306 of 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by scurvyfreedman View Post


It seems to me that the combination players are most successful - both have military leadership skills and political acumen.

Mace Tyrell
Based on what evidence thus far?
post #2307 of 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post

Based on what evidence thus far?

He sided with Renly when Renly had the largest army and support of the small folk (marrying his daughter to the King). At the time his army was equal to the size of the Stormlords who were with Renly, so he made up half of Renly's host.

Once Renly died he quickly made a deal with the Lannisters (I believe brokered by Littlefinger) for the marriage of Margaery to Joffrey and joined the Battle of the Blackwater with Tywin (commanding half the forces) routing Stannis' rear. His sons - Loras fighting along side Garlan as Renly's Ghost (in Renly's armor) caused the Stormlords to abandon Stannis in mid-battle. As reward he was appointed to the Small Council.
post #2308 of 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

This confirms that he's super smart. He understands he's a suck actor and should do something else. I agree he's infuriating to look at, but it doesn't mean he plays the role well. He adds no depth whatsoever.

Joffrey was one of the relatively few characters in the book without any real depth. They've played that up even further in the show (the hooker torture scene, for example). He's just purely awful and despicable. You're supposed to hate him and want him to get carved into tiny pieces, slowly. I don't think there's much room for an actor to add anything to that.
post #2309 of 4852
One of the probs with GRRM's writing is that you rarely get to see/hear/experience anything cool that happens firsthand. It leads up and by the time it's "go time" the chapter ends and when you get back to it, you only learn what happened through hearsay after the fact. They definitely needed to beef up Joffrey for the show. I'm not sure I'd have hated him quite as much as I do if I didn't have the show to go by as well. Not saying he's a likeable guy, but seems to me he's far worse in the show.

I'm glad the old Tyrell woman, Queen of Thorns, is getting some good screentime already. I really wanted to read more about her in the book (I've only read the first 3 novels).
post #2310 of 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by scurvyfreedman View Post

He sided with Renly when Renly had the largest army and support of the small folk (marrying his daughter to the King). At the time his army was equal to the size of the Stormlords who were with Renly, so he made up half of Renly's host.

Once Renly died he quickly made a deal with the Lannisters (I believe brokered by Littlefinger) for the marriage of Margaery to Joffrey and joined the Battle of the Blackwater with Tywin (commanding half the forces) routing Stannis' rear. His sons - Loras fighting along side Garlan as Renly's Ghost (in Renly's armor) caused the Stormlords to abandon Stannis in mid-battle. As reward he was appointed to the Small Council.

So you're telling me he's adept at both politics and combat because his son rebelled and he went along for the ride, then when Renly died and Littlefinger arranged for him to not get executed for treason, he agreed to it?

Sorry, not gonna agree with you on that one. Essentially, he picked the biggest army each time. He's lucky no one killed him for being a faithless snake.
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