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seems like people still have unrealistic expections on muscle growth: solution within - Page 5

post #61 of 75
12/2/10 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe View Post
most lifters and coaches have a poor understanding of science but have a great understanding of what marketing execs push (and many of these guys are also paid by marketing execs to promote their products). you're also assuming that scientists can't also be lifters and coaches. if you don't trust science, then why even refer to it? to dismiss science is to also dismiss critical thinking. sounds like blind faith, a.k.a. religion, to me.

like i said earlier, people don't understand the relationship between energy, strength, and muscle growth. powerlifters, for example, have to get fat because the increased body girth gives them more leverage (it's physics). also, strength is not the same as muscle growth.

and why are guys obsessed with strength? if i look good, who cares. you think people outside the gym are going to be more impressed by how much you squat or a ripped, well proportionate body?

Because knowing that you lifted more than you did last week/month /year feels awesome.
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post #62 of 75
12/2/10 at 8:39pm
Thread Starter 
good for you. but not everyone has the same goal as you. in fact, if most people were informed, most people would realize they all have the same goal - aesthetics. if working out didn't make them look better, most people would stop lifting weights. only a small minority truly prioritize strength like you and your fatass 70s big idols do.
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post #63 of 75
12/2/10 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe View Post
now you're backpedaling. so are the experienced adonis guys anorexic or big?
I'm not backpedaling at all. The black guy was big before he used the site and lost 10 lbs of fat. Maybe he even used the program on the site, who knows? Nobody needs "adonis" to lose 10 lbs of fat. edit: Changed my mind. Black dude in the before and after looks like the same guy. Those photos could have been taken the same day. Scam site is a scam.
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post #64 of 75
12/2/10 at 9:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by db_ggmm View Post
edit: Changed my mind. Black dude in the before and after looks like the same guy. Those photos could have been taken the same day. Scam site is a scam.
thanks for the good laugh, db_ggmm! i'll be sure to pass along the comment to allen. he'll take it as a compliment on his photoshop job on the newspaper. gotta love the way people backwards rationalize things. p.s. if you're not backpedaling, you're contradicting yourself. how can someone be both anorexic and big at the same time? *i can't breathe*
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post #65 of 75
12/2/10 at 9:24pm
Tell me the black guy didn't lose 3 lbs of fat (aka water weight) and take his picture again 24 hrs later under overhead lighting to create shadows.
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post #66 of 75
12/2/10 at 9:35pm
Serious, guys - ignore feature. Quit feeding the troll.
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post #67 of 75
12/2/10 at 10:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarude View Post
Serious, guys - ignore feature. Quit feeding the troll.

Meh, I'll admit to feeding him because i had work that I didn't want to do. I mention 70s Big in a list of people who ate more and got stronger, and he finds the old timey fat strongmen they posted and just huzzahs it around constantly.
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post #68 of 75
12/3/10 at 12:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe View Post
both carbohydrates or protein elicit the same insulin spike. so practically ALL food with calories will elicit an insulin spike.

Source? That doesn't gel with my experience at all, nor what I've heard from endocrinologists. I do about a unit of insulin per 10 grams of carbs, but a unit to 30 grams of protein. A lot of endos don't even have their patients track protein for insulin dosing at all. It'll raise your blood sugar a bit, but nothing like carbs and the effect is a lot slower to boot. It's not just getting worked into basal insulin levels either, I've done enough fasting blood glucose monitoring to have noticed if that was the case.
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post #69 of 75
12/3/10 at 1:43am
Point to be gained from all this verbal diarrhea from nav.exe: if all you care about is looks, follow the clown. If you actually want to become stronger, don't listen to this bullshit from the adonis fanboy. "if i look good, who cares?" immediately shows what kind of a "broseph" you really are. You're exactly like the skinny little fucks in high school (I know, I was one of them: 5'7" and 135 lbs with a sixxpax) who think they're the shit because they're "ripped". Don't worry, one day you'll grow up and realize that women (not girls) are attracted to men who have the strength to back up the looks.

And lol arguing with a diabetic who micromanages his insulin levels
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post #70 of 75
12/3/10 at 1:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikkar501 View Post
And lol arguing with a diabetic who micromanages his insulin levels
I recognize it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison here, but there's some interesting information there since diabetics can actually monitor insulin levels a whole lot more directly than anyone else. I know my way around a weight room, not sure why you'd discount the perspective. Pretty much any responsible diabetic has to "micromanage" insulin levels, kind of necessary to maintain health. Diabetics have trouble getting really lean, so you really have to push the insulin management to get results. Seemed relevant to the discussion. edit: if there's any confusion here, I'm the "autoimmune" type diabetic, not the "fatass who ate himself into a disease" type.
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post #71 of 75
12/3/10 at 2:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
Source? That doesn't gel with my experience at all, nor what I've heard from endocrinologists. I do about a unit of insulin per 10 grams of carbs, but a unit to 30 grams of protein. A lot of endos don't even have their patients track protein for insulin dosing at all. It'll raise your blood sugar a bit, but nothing like carbs and the effect is a lot slower to boot. It's not just getting worked into basal insulin levels either, I've done enough fasting blood glucose monitoring to have noticed if that was the case.
from what i understand not the same amount of spike and protein + carb produces an even greater spike than either by themselves, but overall GI is lower
Quote:
What About Protein and Fat? But what if the meal contains protein and fat too, as it usually does? How does that affect our mixed meal calculations? The conventional wisdom holds that between 50 to 60% of protein becomes glucose and enters the bloodstream about 3 to 4 hours after it's eaten. It's generally accepted that fat has little affect on blood glucose. In fact, recent studies indicate that neither protein nor fat have more than a minuscule affect on blood glucose. This seems to be true for people both with and without diabetes. The protein studies are particularly interesting. A 50-gram dose of protein (in the form of very lean beef) resulted in only about 2 grams of glucose being produced and released into circulation. Neither does adding protein to carbohydrate slow the absorption or peak of the glucose response. Fat delays the peak but not the total glucose response, according to these new studies. Therefore, it looks like you can simply ignore protein and fat in mixed meal calculations. "Of much greater concern is how protein and fat affect blood glucose levels in the long term," Jennie Brand-Miller of the University of Sydney writes me. "High fat and high protein diets have the distinct potential to induce insulin resistance, which would mean that any carbohydrate eaten would raise blood glucose and insulin levels to greater heights on a day to day basis. However, the type of fat may be important here. A recent study in Diabetologia showed that moderately high MUFA [monounsaturated fatty acids] diets improved insulin sensitivity, if the fat was less than a certain level (higher than 37% was associated with insulin resistance)." For fuller details you can check out the articles themselves: Franz, Marion J. "Protein Controversies in Diabetes." Diabetes Spectrum, Volume 13, Number 3, 2000, pages 132-141. The URL is http://journal.diabetes.org/diabetes...13n3/pg132.htm Gannon MC, Nuttall JA, Damberg G, Gupta V, Nuttall FQ. "Effect of Protein Ingestion on the Glucose Appearance Rate in People with Type 2 Diabetes" The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Volume 86, March 2001, pages 1040-1047. The URL is http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/86/3/1040
from robert mendosa's site
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post #72 of 75
12/3/10 at 2:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibonius View Post
I recognize it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison here, but there's some interesting information there since diabetics can actually monitor insulin levels a whole lot more directly than anyone else. I know my way around a weight room, not sure why you'd discount the perspective.

Pretty much any responsible diabetic has to "micromanage" insulin levels, kind of necessary to maintain health. Diabetics have trouble getting really lean, so you really have to push the insulin management to get results. Seemed relevant to the discussion.

edit: if there's any confusion here, I'm the "autoimmune" type diabetic, not the "fatass who ate himself into a disease" type.

Quite the opposite, you misunderstood me. I was attempting to say that nav.exe is a little out of his league arguing that insulin is of no importance to muscle growth with a diabetic who knows all too well about the importance of insulin. Sorry for the confusion!
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post #73 of 75
12/3/10 at 3:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikkar501 View Post
Quite the opposite, you misunderstood me. I was attempting to say that nav.exe is a little out of his league arguing that insulin is of no importance to muscle growth with a diabetic who knows all too well about the importance of insulin. Sorry for the confusion!

Gotcha. Too used to being randomly insulted on the internets
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post #74 of 75
12/3/10 at 4:13am
We need to find the 18th camel.
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post #75 of 75
12/3/10 at 4:14am
Wow, this guy is a total jackass!

You accused me of not "believing" in science. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I believe in atoms and molecules and electrical pulses and protein and fat and insulin swirling about the body, building muscles, burning fat, etc. These are highly complex, highly varied processes that could perhaps someday be accurately described by science.

However, I don't believe the current scientific literature accurately characterizes these processes and thus fails to generate many useful recommendations. And your interpretation of this flawed science, as fed to you by scammy fitness experts, is of absolutely no value to me.

And the truth is, any of the those 70s strong men could look like the rippe duded dude if they cut their cals and ran on a treadmill for two months.

Saying that guys who want to get strong are like girls that want boob jobs is completely crazy. You're the dude that wants a boob job, jackass. You want to be 8% bf and sexy. Guys that want to get strong, in my experience, are athletically minded and driven by personal challenge.

Don't bother responding because I have put you on ignore. Your manner is truly unbearable.
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