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The World's Best Restaurants - Page 2

post #16 of 28
9/14/06 at 6:02pm
Chez Panisse is certainly a wonderful place. Over the years, I've probably eaten in the main restaurant 5-6 times and the smaller annex a handful. Always excellent. I don't have the breadth of experience to know whether or not it's truly one of the world's 50 "greatest" restaurants by any methodology. Nor do I care - they could slip to, say, #67 and I still wouldn't turn up my nose at an offer of a free meal there . . .
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post #17 of 28
9/14/06 at 6:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJman
Oh yeah? Well... uh... why didn't the French media report that instead of the supersecret anti-terrorist Paris cell? Where are they when it comes to real news, huh?!
You must not read the good media. Food is certainly a serious business, from now on you had better ask me in advance before subscribing to any newspaper or news service.
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post #18 of 28
9/14/06 at 6:09pm
Wow this is a weird list, so many Spanish restaurants and no Lyonnais restaurants in the top 25...
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post #19 of 28
9/15/06 at 2:47am
I follow restaurants and restaurant trends very closely (more towards the high end). This ranking in particular, or the top restaurants on this list, are given more credit for avant-garde creations. El Bulli, arguably, has more or less defined Molecular Gastronomy. Same for the Fat Duck. These days, to be a 4-star NYTimes or 3-star Michelin restaurant, you've got to be doing something innovative in the kitchen - you can't just have great food and great service anymore.
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post #20 of 28
9/15/06 at 6:08am
Yeah, I agree. You've got to be jerkin' off in your meals and trying to impress your fickle critics with your flash in the pan tasting menus instead if producing real qualty meals that last for two to three courses and actually produce substantive results. GO PRETENTIOUS EUROTRASH CUISINE!!!!
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post #21 of 28
9/17/06 at 5:02pm
I have been to seven of them and only le Cinq and l'Ambroisie would make my personal top 25. Gagnaire is very good, but is more a theater of food than a great restaurant. I would eat at Matuhitsa before any of the fancy Nobu restaurants. French Laundry and per se are both good, but per se's neighbor Masa is much, much better. I love Chez Panisse and eat there at least once a year. It is a treasure, but not one of the best restaurants I have eaten in. Re Lyon, a couple of years ago I would have told you that both George Blanc and Cote d'Or would rate near the top of my personal list. From what my parents tell me, before Alain Chapel died, there was no finer restaurant in the world. Nowadays the Lyon area has much less to offer (none of these are actually in Lyon). Gone are the days of Fernand Point and the Meres Lyonnaise. IMO, the regional food capital of France today is Alsace, not the Burgundy, but this is not likely a popular view.
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post #22 of 28
9/17/06 at 10:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iammatt
I have been to seven of them and only le Cinq and l'Ambroisie would make my personal top 25. Gagnaire is very good, but is more a theater of food than a great restaurant. I would eat at Matuhitsa before any of the fancy Nobu restaurants. French Laundry and per se are both good, but per se's neighbor Masa is much, much better. I love Chez Panisse and eat there at least once a year. It is a treasure, but not one of the best restaurants I have eaten in.

Re Lyon, a couple of years ago I would have told you that both George Blanc and Cote d'Or would rate near the top of my personal list. From what my parents tell me, before Alain Chapel died, there was no finer restaurant in the world. Nowadays the Lyon area has much less to offer (none of these are actually in Lyon). Gone are the days of Fernand Point and the Meres Lyonnaise. IMO, the regional food capital of France today is Alsace, not the Burgundy, but this is not likely a popular view.


How can you possibly compare French Laundry / Per Se with Masa? They're both totally different beasts. Different food, different service, different atmosphere, two totally different experiences. Comparing apples with oranges.
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post #23 of 28
9/18/06 at 4:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchen
How can you possibly compare French Laundry / Per Se with Masa? They're both totally different beasts. Different food, different service, different atmosphere, two totally different experiences. Comparing apples with oranges.
Well, in one way you are correct, but in another, they are all restaurants that attempt to provide an amazing dining experience. In that way they can be compared. Afterall, they are competitors. I have only eaten at per se once, so perhaps I should not include it. I have eaten at the French Laundry at least eight times and at Masa twice. Masa used to have a restaurant called Ginza SushiKo in Beverly Hills that was really the same thing he is doing now. I ate there many times before he left. I can say that my best meal at the French Laundry was not as good as the worst one I have had at Masa/Ginza. That is not to say I have ever had a bad meal at any of them. My overall preference is for French, not Japanese cuisine. I just think that the French Laundry is highly overrated as is much else in Napa. I am a Napa native, so don't assume I hate the place. I also think that people have a hard time understanding Masa.
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post #24 of 28
9/18/06 at 4:59am
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Masa used to have a restaurant called Ginza SushiKo in Beverly Hills that was really the same thing he is doing now. I ate there many times before he left.
Oh NO! There is no more Ginza Shushiko?! That used to be one of my favorite places, but I haven`t had the chance to go back to L.A. for a long time. What is his new place MASA like? I hope it`s similar to or better than Ginza Sushiko...and I hope it`s not a big restaurant.
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I've observed in others that a steady diet of overy buttery or creamy cuisines accustomes their palates to the richness of butter and cream to the extent that they perceive other less fatty cuisines as bland or lacking in variety
Exactly, I agree. They are not actually tasting the food.
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post #25 of 28
9/18/06 at 10:32am
Notwihstanding the aforementioned bias of the survey, I think this is an "easy" list comprised of critics favorites and conventional wisdom (which isn't completely off). I have personally eaten at five of the restaurants

Ramsays -- one time, for lunch. The most expensive lunch of my life; impeccable service, excellent food.

Daniel -- held a small birthday party there; very good food, service was fine, though not outstanding. A bit forgettable. Thought it was perhaps resting on laurels a bit.

L'Atelier Joel Robuchon -- a very interesting dinner, both in termsof atmosphere and the food. Loved it, and looking forward to visiting the new NYC outpost.

Le Bernardin -- two lunches; some of the best fish I've ever had. A bit stuffy.

Gramercy Tavern -- a dinner and a brunch. good, not as great as I would have expected. Service was excellent, however.
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post #26 of 28
9/18/06 at 10:42am
Didn't even see Bernadin on the list. I have had two atrocious dinners there. I would not go back.
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post #27 of 28
9/18/06 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iammatt
Well, in one way you are correct, but in another, they are all restaurants that attempt to provide an amazing dining experience. In that way they can be compared. Afterall, they are competitors.

I have only eaten at per se once, so perhaps I should not include it.

I have eaten at the French Laundry at least eight times and at Masa twice. Masa used to have a restaurant called Ginza SushiKo in Beverly Hills that was really the same thing he is doing now. I ate there many times before he left. I can say that my best meal at the French Laundry was not as good as the worst one I have had at Masa/Ginza. That is not to say I have ever had a bad meal at any of them.

My overall preference is for French, not Japanese cuisine. I just think that the French Laundry is highly overrated as is much else in Napa. I am a Napa native, so don't assume I hate the place. I also think that people have a hard time understanding Masa.


I definitely understand what you're saying, but it sounds more like you like Masa more than FL / Per Se, not that Masa is "better," just different in many ways.

I really like both restaurants. Maybe I'm biased (I know several people at Per Se) but I've always gotten a ridiculous number of extra courses, leaving me more than stuffed and extremely happy. That said, Masa is an incredible experience in itself, very much similar to the private dinners you could expect in Japan.
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post #28 of 28
9/18/06 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchen
I definitely understand what you're saying, but it sounds more like you like Masa more than FL / Per Se, not that Masa is "better," just different in many ways.

I really like both restaurants. Maybe I'm biased (I know several people at Per Se) but I've always gotten a ridiculous number of extra courses, leaving me more than stuffed and extremely happy. That said, Masa is an incredible experience in itself, very much similar to the private dinners you could expect in Japan.
Yes and no. I actually think that the food at Masa is better. I imagine that I feel that way because IMO the Keller restaurants do not hold a candle to similar style restaurants in France. I have not been to Japan, so I cannot judge Masa the same way. I would never turn down an invitation to FL, I think it is a really good restaurant. There just happen to be several that I like more. I also find the reservation policy at FL annoying enough to detract from the overall dining experience. I am not a regular and know nobody there, so YMMV. They do know us at Masa, so that may be another reason. This week I ate at l'Astrance in Paris which I found to be sublime. I would suggest it to anybody looking for a truly special meal.
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