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Paul fussell's "class" - Page 4  

post #46 of 55
CT Guy, Some of us are trying to have an intellectual/sociological discussion and debate. Why make it personal? Apologies if this seemingly harmless discussion critiquing a book and the theories it espouses causes you to boil with rage to the point of nausea and desiring violence against strangers.
post #47 of 55
Well, in America the only thing that is truly above one person and another is the size of their estate, or more precisely their estate is in a higher tax bracket than other people. In Europe, however it seems that the primary separation of class is the possession of a noble title (the story of L.V. Beethoven comes to mind, constantly trying to pass his Van {Flemish} as a Von {Prussian aristocracy}). Regardless if Puffy is considered upper class or not by some people, I am impressed by his determination and dedication. He at least has my admiration, something along the lines of the Hilton sisters will never have. Spending your life shopping and partying is not an accomplishment; it is a waste of life. My mind cannot fathom living ones life in a void, with no beginning and no end, just life, shopping, and death. Regarding the primary reason the thread started: seeing as most "middle-class" people cannot afford retail prices (or would not spend the money on) expensive clothes, i.e. a few thousand for a suit, a $325 shirt, a $25,000 watch, etc... it only makes sense that patricians, who can afford such wares would dress well. Plus their Laissez-faire schedules permit them the time to ensure that the tie dimple is perfectly centered, etc... It is certainly not "upper-class" to appear in public like a disheveled slob, especially regarding business, semi-formal, or formal affairs. Another point to add is that pride in ones appearance is not primarily a class issue. People will automatically comport their manners towards you in a higher level if you are well (appearance is proper for setting and situation, and all items look clean and properly pressed, etc...) dressed. Did the Duke of Windsor not take great care regarding his appearance? Is he not one of the quintessential sartorial figures many epitomize? Try going to a stockholders annual meeting of a fortune 500 company in beach sandals, shorts, and an old faded t-shirt and see how much respect you command compared to wearing a nice 2 or 3-button 2 piece suit with a nice shirt and a properly tied tie. Jon.
post #48 of 55
Regarding the dispute concerning "higher education." Several pieces of data: first, studies have repeatedly demonstrated that investment in a college degree has a positive future value -- i.e. the discounted value of higher future income more than offsets the cost of the education and the loss of income during the education years. While this is of course not going to be true for everyone, on average higher education does pay for itself, at least for the person getting the education (who rarely bears the entire cost of that education due to public subsidies and private scholarships/financial aid). Second, interestingly, there is some data that shows that attendance at a school such as Harvard, Stanford, etc. does not in fact enhance ones lifetime income or professional success. These studies must by necessity involve lots of statistical analysis and assumptions, but they suggest that success is ultimately a function of a person's intelligence, personality, etc. rather than where they go to school; I doubt the same would be true in, for example, the UK, which is a much more class conscious culture and where your school and accent tend to be more important than in the USA. Third, I know lots of Harvard graduates, and very rarely do they mention, let alone flaunt, their alma mater.
post #49 of 55
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Frankly this conversation really disgusts me. It makes me sick that some of you seem so overly obsessed with wealth and class.
Word, me too. Why don't all of you talk about this on the Robb Report forum or something. This thread isn't even making any sense. The class system is dead in America, no one really cares about it except the posers that read Robb Report.
post #50 of 55
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Frankly this conversation really disgusts me. It makes me sick that some of you seem so overly obsessed with wealth and class.
Word, me too. Why don't all of you talk about this on the Robb Report forum or something. This thread isn't even making any sense. The class system is dead in America, no one really cares about it except the posers that read Robb Report.
First of all what exactly is the American class system is partially up for debate, but to generalize the discussion, the separation of class is fundamentally based on monetary wealth, thus as long as some people have more money than others, there will always be a "class" distinction. Regardless if it is correct or not, whether you approve or disapprove, the distinction remains nonetheless. As long as there is a distinction for whatever reason between one person and another (or one group of people and another group), a separation will always occur. All you can do is chalk it up to human nature. Jon. P.S. Robb Report is like (or exactly like) a monthly picture book of things. Are they expensive? Yes. Are they necessarily good? No. Is the magazine for the most part overtly self-indulgent and narcissistic onto itself? Yes. But, it does have advertisements and articles regarding the very items that are mentioned on this forum, thus not all of it is bad. Just take it as a picture book and nothing else, that way no disappointment will ensue.
post #51 of 55
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Quote (CTGuy @ 13 May 2004, 08:03) Frankly this conversation really disgusts me. It makes me sick that some of you seem so overly obsessed with wealth and class.
Word, me too. Why don't all of you talk about this on the Robb Report forum or something.
Word to you both. This thread is f**king disgusting. To me, anyone who talks about education in terms of "return on investment" and/or is interested in whether Puffy is upper class is certainly a Philistine and most probably a moron - sorry, is being moronic.
post #52 of 55
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Quote Quote (CTGuy @ 13 May 2004, 08:03) Frankly this conversation really disgusts me. It makes me sick that some of you seem so overly obsessed with wealth and class.
Word, me too. Why don't all of you talk about this on the Robb Report forum or something.
Word to you both. This thread is f**king disgusting. To me, anyone who talks about education in terms of "return on investment" and/or is interested in whether Puffy is upper class is certainly a Philistine and most probably a moron - sorry, is being moronic.[/quote] Yes...I can see your English language education, are there any other words you wish to subordinate yourself to? And for your information: one of the parameters in university ranking is the monetary return over investment. If the school can help obtain a better monetary compensation (which will allow for the repayment of loans; who wants to be in eternal debt?), thus it is a contributing factor of ranking. Just look at the back of any B-School guide and you will find a table showing return over investment for each individual school. If this thread does not suit your tastes and you do not wish to add any constructive aspects or criticism using rational connotation; but, instead use irrational and random phrases, without properly reading the individual posts then perhaps it would benefit all members posting and reading this thread for you to refrain yourself from contributing. Interestingly, you call other people Philistines. Jon.
post #53 of 55
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And for your information: one of the parameters in university ranking is the monetary return over investment. If the school can help obtain a better monetary compensation (which will allow for the repayment of loans; who wants to be in eternal debt?), thus it is a contributing factor of ranking. Just look at the back of any B-School guide and you will find a table showing return over investment for each individual school.
Business school is more properly called "training", not education; and the b-school model is a poor one for university education in general.
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If this thread does not suit your tastes and you do not wish to add any constructive aspects or criticism using rational connotation; but, instead use irrational and random phrases, without properly reading the individual posts then perhaps it would benefit all members posting and reading this thread for you to refrain yourself from contributing. Interestingly, you call other people Philistines.
Hey look, you can use a thesaurus. Would you like me to start correcting your grammar? FYI, I read the entire thread. My post was meant to comment on its overall tone. I'm going to ignore this thread from now on. It really doesn't belong in this category in any case. Maybe it should be dumped to "General Discussion: money and morons"
post #54 of 55
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And for your information: one of the parameters in university ranking is the monetary return over investment. If the school can help obtain a better monetary compensation (which will allow for the repayment of loans; who wants to be in eternal debt?), thus it is a contributing factor of ranking. Just look at the back of any B-School guide and you will find a table showing return over investment for each individual school.
Business school is more properly called "training", not education; and the b-school model is a poor one for university education in general.
Quote:
If this thread does not suit your tastes and you do not wish to add any constructive aspects or criticism using rational connotation; but, instead use irrational and random phrases, without properly reading the individual posts then perhaps it would benefit all members posting and reading this thread for you to refrain yourself from contributing. Interestingly, you call other people Philistines.
Hey look, you can use a thesaurus. Would you like me to start correcting your grammar? FYI, I read the entire thread. My post was meant to comment on its overall tone. I'm going to ignore this thread from now on. It really doesn't belong in this category in any case. Maybe it should be dumped to "General Discussion: money and morons"
I don't require a thesaurus; I have a proper use of the English vernacular. My protest was of the language use, an obvious use by people who do not posses a greater vocabulary (or do a greater vocabulary, but are unable to properly express themselves). Yes, this thread is dead. Jon.
post #55 of 55
Indeed it is, and should have been moved.
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