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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura - Page 231

post #3451 of 3849
Hard to say. He has macular degeneration, but I figure it's the thought that counts.
post #3452 of 3849
I've received some of my favorite compliments from the deaf and blind.
post #3453 of 3849
I posit that anyone who has more than a few commissions from any one tailor will have dealt with inconsistencies (not a bad thing in my opinion). The two tailors with whom I have worked extensively have, over the course of our relationships, delivered end products that are noticeably inconsistent in tailoring (length, fullness in the chest--whatever) which I surmise we borne out of either human inexactitude or a personal judgement that a certain cloth or style required a different treatment.

I am not shooting for uniformity but rather that each commission embodies what I hoped it would when I first selected the cloth and the styling details. Obviously, there are examples of shoddy work that should not be tolerated, but if you take the tailor's gut feeling out of the process and won't accept deviation, you are doing yourself a disservice.
post #3454 of 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by aportnoy View Post

I posit that anyone who has more than a few commissions from a any one tailor will have dealt with inconsistencies (not a bad thing in my opinion). The two tailors with whom I have worked extensively have, over the course of our relationships, delivered end products that are noticeably inconsistent in tailoring (length, fullness in the chest--whatever) which I surmise we borne out of either human inexactitude or a personal judgement that a certain cloth or style required a different treatment.

I am not shooting for uniformity but rather that each commission embodies what I hoped it would when I first selected the cloth and the styling details. Obviously, there are examples of shoddy work that should not be tolerated, but if you take the tailor's gut feeling out of the process and won't accept deviation, you are doing yourself a disservice.

He lives!!! :^)

Well said, Andrew.
post #3455 of 3849
The shoulders on this NSM look fine to me: http://www.voxsartoria.com/image/51810861720
post #3456 of 3849
I detect something a little off on the left (pic right). Foo surely will notice!
post #3457 of 3849
Looks pretty natural to me. But what do I know.
post #3458 of 3849
look veeeeeeeery carefully at that slight rise in the shoudlerline near the left sleevehead.

But foo is really the measure here so I shall say no more.
post #3459 of 3849

with the precision of a Fox news journalist, Foo will manage to draw a red wavy line in there somehow independent of the actual contour of the shoulder of course.

post #3460 of 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by aportnoy View Post

I posit that anyone who has more than a few commissions from any one tailor will have dealt with inconsistencies (not a bad thing in my opinion). The two tailors with whom I have worked extensively have, over the course of our relationships, delivered end products that are noticeably inconsistent in tailoring (length, fullness in the chest--whatever) which I surmise we borne out of either human inexactitude or a personal judgement that a certain cloth or style required a different treatment.

I am not shooting for uniformity but rather that each commission embodies what I hoped it would when I first selected the cloth and the styling details. Obviously, there are examples of shoddy work that should not be tolerated, but if you take the tailor's gut feeling out of the process and won't accept deviation, you are doing yourself a disservice.

So here's a question: To what extent do you all think that your bespoke tailors are actually recutting/adjusting their paper patterns each time a garment is fixed to better account for errors in cutting vs. body shape and changes in body shape, vs. just fixing the garment & eyeballing/altering in future iterations?

One of the main selling points of bespoke is supposed to be that your tailor over time develops an accurate blue print from which you can rattle off suits/jackets/whatever. But if they are not actually updating their pattern each time (including for minor alterations type work as garments are finished), it seems to me that that would rob a lot of the value in terms of fine tuning.

The alternative that I am suspicious of is a tailor who makes significant alterations to your garments as they are in process, without adjusting the paper pattern, and thus each subsequent iteration does not benefit from the fine tweaks to the previous.

So with tailors you've worked with over time, do new garments come out just right on the first try, or do they require several fittings each time? If each one requires multiple fittings, what's the justification?

I've made a few forays into bespoke, but have not been a repeat customer, because the frustration of waiting and adjusting and the additional expense has not thus far proved worth it, considering I fit quite well (and often exceptionally well) in off the rack items from some makers. I realize I am robbed of picking my own fabrics, but I generally do not have trouble finding things that I like or want in the places I shop.
post #3461 of 3849
I've actually discussed this with my tailor. He said that it depends on the customer and the type of adjustment. If it is fundamental to the fit he makes the adjustment, if it is just a 1/4" nip here and there there is no point if the customer isn't going straight to finish and is getting a fitting. Plus, your mood, the tailor's mood and feelings change from suit to suit so it is good to feel those out during each suit especially since different fabrics behave differently and may appear differently despite the pattern being the same.

I have been working with my tailor for about 2.5 years now and I only have one fitting. Despite this my trouser length always needs slight adjustment. Oh well.
post #3462 of 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by archetypal_yuppie View Post

So here's a question: To what extent do you all think that your bespoke tailors are actually recutting/adjusting their paper patterns each time a garment is fixed to better account for errors in cutting vs. body shape and changes in body shape, vs. just fixing the garment & eyeballing/altering in future iterations?

One of the main selling points of bespoke is supposed to be that your tailor over time develops an accurate blue print from which you can rattle off suits/jackets/whatever. But if they are not actually updating their pattern each time (including for minor alterations type work as garments are finished), it seems to me that that would rob a lot of the value in terms of fine tuning.

The alternative that I am suspicious of is a tailor who makes significant alterations to your garments as they are in process, without adjusting the paper pattern, and thus each subsequent iteration does not benefit from the fine tweaks to the previous.

So with tailors you've worked with over time, do new garments come out just right on the first try, or do they require several fittings each time? If each one requires multiple fittings, what's the justification?

I've made a few forays into bespoke, but have not been a repeat customer, because the frustration of waiting and adjusting and the additional expense has not thus far proved worth it, considering I fit quite well (and often exceptionally well) in off the rack items from some makers. I realize I am robbed of picking my own fabrics, but I generally do not have trouble finding things that I like or want in the places I shop.

I like consistency from garment to garment and don't like to be surprised (unless I like it better smile.gif ). One reason I stopped using Raphael is that my second DB looked nothing like my first one. they both fit great, which is one of Raphael's great skills. But the crossover, lapel shape, etc. were simply unrelated from one suit to the other. I loved the cut of the first DB and the second one less so. I suspect he didn't have a paper pattern, but rather simply drafted rock-of-eye based on my measurements.
post #3463 of 3849
My tailor has moved incrementally (albeit slowly) to the point now where after 4+ years the jacket is as good as it will ever get without any fitting. Oddly, pants are always needing adjustments. Maybe he outsources the pants.
post #3464 of 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by aportnoy View Post

I posit that anyone who has more than a few commissions from any one tailor will have dealt with inconsistencies (not a bad thing in my opinion). The two tailors with whom I have worked extensively have, over the course of our relationships, delivered end products that are noticeably inconsistent in tailoring (length, fullness in the chest--whatever) which I surmise we borne out of either human inexactitude or a personal judgement that a certain cloth or style required a different treatment.

I am not shooting for uniformity but rather that each commission embodies what I hoped it would when I first selected the cloth and the styling details. Obviously, there are examples of shoddy work that should not be tolerated, but if you take the tailor's gut feeling out of the process and won't accept deviation, you are doing yourself a disservice.

There will always be some variance. As you point out, these are handmade goods. But, there is variance, and then there are mistakes. For example, the drape of my jackets differs a great deal between examples. Some have an obvious fold at the scye, most have only a hint, and a few have none whatsoever. Buttoning points move up or down a half centimeter. The shape of the shirt-set sleeveheads varies (sometimes more shirred and obvious, other times barely perceptible). That sort of stuff is all what you expect from specimen to specimen.

A mistake is cutting you a 6x2 double-breasted jacket when you ordered a 4x1. Or when the sleeve pitch is off. Or when the balance on one side of your jacket is wrong. Or when your shoulder line is pa-fucked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewfoot View Post

The shoulders on this NSM look fine to me: http://www.voxsartoria.com/image/51810861720

The distance and lighting make it hard to tell, but you can still see some upswing at the scye. I'm telling you guys: the scye is probably cut too tall and large.

Also, Vox's NSM jackets are no longer a good reference. He agreed the shoulder line is pa-fucked and had his jackets fixed. So, I don't believe for a second that Mina is as dismissive of the problematic "feature" as some have made it sound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

I detect something a little off on the left (pic right). Foo surely will notice!

Yep, still there. But less so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

I like consistency from garment to garment and don't like to be surprised (unless I like it better smile.gif ). One reason I stopped using Raphael is that my second DB looked nothing like my first one. they both fit great, which is one of Raphael's great skills. But the crossover, lapel shape, etc. were simply unrelated from one suit to the other. I loved the cut of the first DB and the second one less so. I suspect he didn't have a paper pattern, but rather simply drafted rock-of-eye based on my measurements.

Well, he's got paper patterns in his workroom, for what it's worth. He showed me some for clients he thought I would have heard of. I had not.

Wait, that's not true. He showed me aportnoy's, who is a superstar. smile.gif
post #3465 of 3849
My first DB was also my first suit and he may not have bothered to make a paper pattern for it. My second DB was my third suit (and last).
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