Ah, that's right. I was there when Hitchcock told Manton that the pitch of his sleeves would adjust itself over time. True "artisans."
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Styleforum Top Pickspost #3437 of 40025/30/13 at 6:10pmQuote:Originally Posted by mafoofan
As for your other point: I don't think it is doing anyone any good to hold back criticism. Neither NSM, nor any other tailor, is doing anyone any favors. They take money for their work. It is not art or charity. It's clothing you worked hard to pay for. We don't hold back our critiques of restaurants, plumbers, doctors, etc. Why are tailors different? Don't fool yourself.
I'm sorry, but, you're the one fooling yourself. Being polite doesn't bias our critique towards the subject, it just shows that we're polite, nothing else.post #3438 of 40025/31/13 at 3:34amQuote:I'm sorry, but, you're the one fooling yourself. Being polite doesn't bias our critique towards the subject, it just shows that we're polite, nothing else.
Not mentioning imperfections of your bespoke garments to the tailor may be polite, yes, but it's not helping to improve the product or the tailor's skills.post #3439 of 40025/31/13 at 4:01amThe point is to critique in a polite way, not to avoid critiquing. Critiquing is not inpolite, the way we critique (using something such as "pa-fucked" or a haughty manner, for example) can be inpolite if we aren't cautious enough.
Do not fool yourself, paying someone should not get you the best customer service. It often does, only to show how corrupt our society has become. And if you can't understand this, I give up on you.post #3440 of 40025/31/13 at 4:23ampost #3441 of 40025/31/13 at 4:53amFirst, good customer service is far too complex, but, for the purposes of this discussion, relate it to politeness and honesty.
Regarding your question, the answer is no, the relation is not so simple. Not seeing that the actual relation between both is corrupt is to fool yourself. It's a fact that paying more does often get you a better customer service, but it shouldn't and thinking that it should is to corrupt/fool yourself.
Boy, how did we get on this subject? =Dpost #3442 of 40025/31/13 at 6:05amQuote:Originally Posted by StugotesQuote:I'm sorry, but, you're the one fooling yourself. Being polite doesn't bias our critique towards the subject, it just shows that we're polite, nothing else.
Not mentioning imperfections of your bespoke garments to the tailor may be polite, yes, but it's not helping to improve the product or the tailor's skills.
You can and should voice anything to your tailor - praise, suggestions, questions or complaints - but as in all other situations in life, in a polite and gentlemanly, cultivated and genteel way.
This is perhaps difficult to comprehend if one only strive to dress as a gentlemanpost #3443 of 40025/31/13 at 6:16amQuote:
But I doubt that Foo (or anyone else) would walk up to NSM and actually ask "Yo dawg, what is goin' on with that pa-fucked shoulder?!"
On another note, I think it has been established more than once by now that this is Styleforum, and not Gentlemanforumpost #3444 of 40025/31/13 at 6:33amQuote:
Exactly. The insultingly paternalistic lecturing from the likes of Victor or Butler on being polite are extremely tiresome--worse, extremely insulting, and worst of all, naive. This is an internet forum, not the Union Club.post #3445 of 40025/31/13 at 7:09amQuote:Originally Posted by mafoofanQuote:
Exactly. The insultingly paternalistic lecturing from the likes of Victor or Butler on being polite are extremely tiresome--worse, extremely insulting, and worst of all, naive. This is an internet forum, not the Union Club.
Oh, I do beg your pardon - so StyleForumnites can or should not behave in a polite way in life - pardon my paternalistic naivety which prohibits me from prolonging this exchange for a couple of hundred postspost #3446 of 40025/31/13 at 8:50am
Thank you, Foo, for your description on the NSM house style. It wasn't what I asked, but I can subtract from your answer the key aspects when analyzing a coat's silhouette.Quote:
No need to be insulted, some just can't understand those concepts.
What's the difference between the social relations at an Internet forum and at the "real life"? Only one: in the real life the consequences for your actions are more significant. Not sure if you had studied Politics yet, but this logic is purely associated with corrupted persons.
It's quite pitiful how saying that everyone should be equally respectful with everyone regardless of their paycheck is subject to such controversy.
I'm not going to continue on this, it's pointless. Go read Al Farabi and you're going to understand better.post #3447 of 40025/31/13 at 10:05ampost #3448 of 40025/31/13 at 10:15amQuote:Originally Posted by mafoofan
I'm not sure why we need to speak respectfully of any tailor's work. It was paid for, with real money, no? Good work is owed for the price paid. When we start worshipping tailors, we stop getting good tailoring. NSM tailoring is highly variable, from what we've seen. Some examples are okay, most are somewhat problematic, and a few are really bad. .post #3449 of 40025/31/13 at 11:06amThe fit in my last few NSM suits is better than in my first commission. I chalked this up to the normal run-in period with a new tailor, and also my getting a better realization of what I like.
FWIW I'm waering an 8 oz. Fresco NSM suit today, and a friend's father told me I "looked sharp."
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