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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura - Page 221

post #3301 of 3932
Jeez-- I leave for 12 hours and I find 58 new posts.

Which goes to prove that if there isn't enough work in a small town to keep a lawyer busy, there's usually enough for two.
post #3302 of 3932

Am I the only one who finds it ridiculous that a bunch of people with a consumer's knowledge of tailoring are arguing very technical issues? Where is Despos or any number of real tailors here who actually know what they are talking about?

post #3303 of 3932

^

 

Exactly. FWIW, in the Rubinacci thread Despos describes the NSM shoulders as a "style" not a flaw...
 

post #3304 of 3932
I think Jeffrey agreed with Foo, hence the continued battle over the fate of shoulder expressions...
post #3305 of 3932
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMartNJ View Post

Am I the only one who finds it ridiculous that a bunch of people with a consumer's knowledge of tailoring are arguing very technical issues? Where is Despos or any number of real tailors here who actually know what they are talking about?

I don't find it ridiculous at all. No tailor wants to go on record bad-mouthing another.
post #3306 of 3932
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxgenius View Post

I don't find it ridiculous at all. No tailor wants to go on record bad-mouthing another.

 

Your second statement does not qualify your first. It is ridiculous that laypeople are having a tiff over technical issues. That no other tailor would bad mouth another doesn't make the laypeople any less silly. Unless you mean that it's not ridiculous AND no tailor would bad mouth the other.

 

You've either put forth a non sequitur or not explained yourself. Nyamean?

post #3307 of 3932
I think medtech should fly out to naples and get fitted for a suit just so this thread can get some pictures going again, although there many be some shoulder commentary which would cause this entire cycle to happen again, quite a conundrum.
post #3308 of 3932
The only part of this ongoing discussion i don't care for is the "because it's ugly" statements as reasoning. I understand that it is pretty much an aesthetic issue we are talking about, but "ugly" is truly a relative term.

I am more interested in what Mina and Dino have to say about it. It is interesting to learn that Mina and Dino are not tailors or cutters, but more design consultants. The fact that they use various tailors in Naples would be consistent with the different shoulder expressions received.

When you go to NSM, do people ask for a specific shoulder expression? Or does NSM have a "house style" shoulder expression that people expect by default?
post #3309 of 3932
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMartNJ View Post

Am I the only one who finds it ridiculous that a bunch of people with a consumer's knowledge of tailoring are arguing very technical issues? Where is Despos or any number of real tailors here who actually know what they are talking about?

Will all due respect to our resident tailor members, the forum was actually stronger before the conversation was dominated by their judgments. Why? Well, first of all, tailors all come from different traditions. Yet, each tends to have difficulty viewing different traditions as different and not simply wrong. Being human, they can also be biased and competitive. Second, anybody who actually needs a bespoke tailor's opinion can always ask his own bespoke tailor. Third, it is important to nurture your role as a diligent client. You should never dominate your tailor or micromanage him, but anybody with experience in bespoke will tell you that the best results come from an active dialogue. You need to learn how facilitate that dialogue.

So, you see, "consumer's knowledge" can be quite powerful. I have more to learn from other experienced clients than from bespoke tailors other than my own. Consider that RJman has thumb-up'ed your post, yet he is himself a devoted master of wielding "consumer" knowledge, without possessing an inkling of professional expertise. Anything worthwhile he's ever added to conversation completely contradicts what you're saying here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9thsymph View Post

Exactly. FWIW, in the Rubinacci thread Despos describes the NSM shoulders as a "style" not a flaw...

You misread. Despos was speaking generally about pagoda shoulders. He wasn't commending whatever it is the NSM shoulders are.
post #3310 of 3932
Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiSpiegel View Post

The only part of this ongoing discussion i don't care for is the "because it's ugly" statements as reasoning. I understand that it is pretty much an aesthetic issue we are talking about, but "ugly" is truly a relative term.

I am more interested in what Mina and Dino have to say about it. It is interesting to learn that Mina and Dino are not tailors or cutters, but more design consultants. The fact that they use various tailors in Naples would be consistent with the different shoulder expressions received.

When you go to NSM, do people ask for a specific shoulder expression? Or does NSM have a "house style" shoulder expression that people expect by default?


This might have been an error in translation, or she might have not have understood what i asked but when i asked her who made my pattern she said she did herself. Although i realize that this probably means that she "designed" it while a tailor actually "made" it.
post #3311 of 3932

No Foo, you misread. I never said despos commended the shoulder, but rather that he did categorize it as a intentional style, not a flaw.

 

Quote (Despos) "Just saw the picture of the blue jacket and the concave shoulder you prefer. This is the default style shoulder Mina does, she would be your best bet."

post #3312 of 3932
My understanding is that Mina took elements of Neapolitan style she liked and used it to create her own house style. She then hired tailors to execute the style she wanted for NSM. It's perhaps more correct to say that Mina designed the style while she has cutters and tailors execute it.

Neither Mina nor Dino have ever claimed to be tailors. Mina has only said she grew up in the clothing industry, which is true. Whether you think it's useful that she's spent a good deal of time working for various RTW brands and tailors (though not as a tailor herself) is your call. But they've never misrepresented themselves.

There are plenty of people who are not technically trained as tailors, but still run respectable bespoke houses. Mariano Rubinacci and Richard James most easily come to mind. But that doesn't mean these people aren't valuable. As people have often said of Mariano - much of what you're paying for when you're buying a Rubinacci suit is access to Mariano's style advice. I can't say first hand whether that's true, as I unfortunately don't own any custom Rubinacci garments, but I can say that I find Mina and Dino's style advice very helpful. Mina especially walks a nice line between being firm enough about how she thinks something should look, and being flexible enough to make sure the client is happy. I think that's quite useful.

Of course, in a perfect world, your fitter, tailor, cutter, and style consultant would all be the same person. One fairly well respected Savile Row cutter I talked to said he thinks it's probably useful to have the cutter at the fitting, since the sales staff often won't know how what's the cause of some unusual problem (when it occurs anyway). However, for most things - unless the person is unusually shaped or the garment came out wrong - it can be fine to have the fitter and cutter be different people.

I'm not experienced enough in bespoke to say whether it's important to have the cutter at the fitting. I imagine someone would need a lot of experience with different houses in order to be able to comment. But, I don't think it's obvious that there's any problem with Mina or Dino not technically being tailors. Many houses are run by non-tailors, and are successful because of the expert stylistic eye of who ever is running the shop. At the same time, I've seen work from cutter-run houses that, frankly, while technically impressive, is not something I would wear because the style doesn't appeal.

Anyway, at all my overseas fittings, Dino usually has a tailor with him, though I don't know if he's my cutter (I don't believe he is, but I could be wrong).
Edited by dieworkwear - 4/25/13 at 9:54pm
post #3313 of 3932
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


My understanding is that Mina took elements of Neapolitan style she liked and used it to create her own house style. She then hired tailors to execute the style she wanted for NSM. It's perhaps more correct to say that Mina designed the style while she has cutters and tailors execute it.

Neither Mina nor Dino have ever claimed to be tailors. Mina has only said she grew up in the clothing industry, which is true. Whether you think it's useful that she's spent a good deal of time working for various RTW brands and tailors (though not as a tailor herself) is your call. But they've never misrepresented themselves.

There are plenty of people who are not technically trained as tailors, but still run respectable bespoke houses. Mariano Rubinacci and Richard James most easily come to mind. But that doesn't mean these people aren't valuable. As people have often said of Mariano - much of what you're paying for when you're buying a Rubinacci suit is access to Mariano's style advice. I can't say first hand whether that's true, as I unfortunately don't own any custom Rubinacci garments, but I can say that I find Mina and Dino's style advice very helpful. Mina especially walks a nice line between being firm enough about how she thinks something should look, and being flexible enough to make sure the client is happy. I think that's quite useful.

Of course, in a perfect world, you fitter, tailor, cutter, and style consultant would all be the same person. One fairly well respected Savile Row cutter I talked to said he thinks it's probably useful to have the cutter at the fitting, since the sales staff often won't know how what's the cause of some unusual problem (when it occurs anyway). However, for most things - unless the person is unusually shaped or the garment came out wrong - it can be fine to have the fitter and cutter be different people.

I'm not experienced enough in bespoke to say whether it's important to have the cutter at the fitting. I imagine someone would need a lot of experience with different houses in order to be able to comment. But, I don't think it's obvious that there's any problem with Mina or Dino not technically being tailors. Many houses are run by non-tailors, and are successful because of the expert stylistic eye of who ever is running the shop. At the same time, I've seen work from cutter-run houses that, frankly, while technically impressive, is not something I would wear because the style doesn't appeal.


Anyway, at all my overseas fittings, Dino usually has a tailor with him, though I don't know if he's the cutter (I don't believe he is, but I could be wrong).

 

Is that the same guy that visited SF w/ Dino for the last two trips?

post #3314 of 3932
I was laying in bed with my lady last night and took this pic of her shoulder. Is it weird that I thought of this thread during this intimate time? It looks that she might not be a good candidate for Mina.

9F5B203E-BF4F-4E75-A982-F6B4DE3CF177-12916-0000078A66B8B514_zps73ab3a32.jpg
post #3315 of 3932
Pump the brakes, champ. Maybe sit the next play out.
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