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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura - Page 217

post #3241 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Honestly, can't tell much. Resolution too low.

 

Yeah, I don't know why clicking on the image doesn't work. You have to right click on it, then pick "open in new tab".

post #3242 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by agjiffy View Post

I think there are a lot of different variations on the shoulder for the Rubinacci's that I've seen but both of these look to me to display the same effect as the NSM shoulder.

Looks pa-fucked to me.
post #3243 of 3928
We've already been through the Rubinacci shoulder business. And even if Foo were gluing Kleenex-brand tissues to his shoulders for extra lumpiness, that would have no bearing on whether the NSM shoulder is intentional or desirable.
post #3244 of 3928
What you're seeing in the Rubinacci shoulders is not the NSM artifact, which makes the shoulder line go concave and turn upward. Rather, you are seeing the natural drop-off of the wearer's own shoulders, resulting from the near total lack of wadding/padding. Notice that it does not invert like the NSM examples. There is no concavity or upturn. It is convex all the way through.

Also, it is consistent across Rubinacci jackets. It is always how I thought my jackets would look before I even became a client. If you don't like it, Rubinacci and many other Neapolitan tailors probably aren't for you. That's fine. We all have our own preferences. But mistakes are a different matter.
post #3245 of 3928
Ah, I finally opened up the full resolution photo of PSG on the page prior. Yes, the artifact is highly mitigated. But if you look closely, you can still see evidence of it:

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At first blush, it just looks like a little waviness. However, if you examine that waviness closely, you can see that the shoulder line still inverts curvature at about the same point as on other NSM jackets. Obviously I cannot say for sure, but given all the different examples we've seen, it appears as if there is too much wadding between the scye and the acromion. The magnitude of the effect will be different on different wearers, depending on their own shoulder shapes. If the theory is correct, then PSG has a bigger drop-off after his acromion than most, which allows the wadded-up shoulder ends to fall more or less level with the rest of his shoulder line. In the case of those with a less steep drop-off, the wadding might be causing the shoulder to swing upward.

Yes, it is just a guess. But that's what it looks like. All my Rubinacci jackets have a semi-circular bit of wadding where I've illustrated on PSG's NSM jacket above. It's very, very hard to feel. If you didn't know to look for it, you would assume there is nothing there. Anyone with an NSM jacket want to see if they can feel it? Also, check if the upturn is solid or hollow.
post #3246 of 3928

Maybe, the shoulder seems to have a very slight pa-fucked effect but it also looks a bit more extended than other NSM examples, so it falls back down at the edge. But anyways, I think the bumpiness in this case is very much within acceptable parameters, at least for an unpadded shoulder. The underlying physique, or even the shirt, could be contributing factors. Besides that, the jacket looks very flattering overall, I really like it. 

post #3247 of 3928
I'm not saying PSG's jacket is good or bad. I'm just pointing out that it's a useful case for understanding why the upturn happens, as there is still evidence of a suspected cause even though the symptom is much more quietly expressed.
post #3248 of 3928
OMG, children.
post #3249 of 3928

I think there are different causes that add up for the upturn, and it looks very mitigated here because the shoulder actually fits right, so you can only see the bump created by the underlying wadding. That's why I think it's acceptable. But when the upturn is more pronounced I believe other factors come into play (armscye not sitting right, probably). These are all just guesses though - as you say, it'd be important to know if that area is hollow or there are just tons of wadding...

 

The fact that I really like the jacket was something I wanted to add; nothing to do with the shoulder issue, sorry about that.

post #3250 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDiaz View Post

I think there are different causes that add up for the upturn, and it looks very mitigated here because the shoulder actually fits right, so you can only see the bump created by the underlying wadding. That's why I think it's acceptable. But when the upturn is more pronounced I believe other factors come into play (armscye not sitting right, probably). These are all just guesses though...

The fact that I really like the jacket was something I wanted to add; nothing to do with the shoulder issue, sorry about that.

You know, I agree that the most probable cause is not wadding. But that theory has been discussed, so I thought PSG's jacket might prove an interesting reference point. I suspect it isn't wadding to blame because the upturn is sometimes very acute--like a little horn at the shoulder tips. So, my best best is that it's caused by the way the armhole is cut (too big and high above the wearer's shoulders). If you feel empty space in the upturned part of the jacket shoulder, then you know that's got to be the reason. Nothing is there to prop up the shoulder end other than the armhole, and the shoulder end couldn't be propped up without a big enough armhole to accommodate.

As for wadding showing through: that should never happen. I'm getting the sense that a lot of people think "soft and light" tailoring is carte blanche for making errors.
post #3251 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post

This is true by default of ercole's preferred style/cut, but he can do an unpadded unlined neapolitan hand felled stitches w/ chrome rims sport jacket, albeit at a higher price, and create a rounder silhouette if your prefer, I'm sure you already know this, just throwing it out there. I do think NSM made a lot of things that turned out fantastic. Its just a matter of consistency, and I get the point about that, which is why I have been using ercole's more often recently. English fluency plus spalla camicia is a wonderful thing, that and not having to wait as long, although RubiTuesdays will always hold a special place in my closet

The biggest difference is in the DBs. Franks SB in the Neapolitan style also looks different to me.
post #3252 of 3928

You shouldn't be able to clearly tell where wadding starts. But on very softly tailored jackets, common sense leads me to believe it will eventually create some bumpiness, specially after being worn for some time. As long as it's just slight bumps and not obvious marks that differentiate where wadding is and is not, I think it's fine...

post #3253 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

That grey jacket you refer to is not Rubinacci. It is Oxxford MTM. I was in Naples precisely for the purpose of replacing it (and my other Oxxford jackets). It has the upturn because the padding was removed after Oxxford made the shoulders wrong. Hence, the armhole is too big and high, creating the artifact. I've explained this again and again. It is a poorly executed jacket. If the NSM shoulders are similar in any way, well . . .

Honestly, if you cannot look at that jacket and instantly recognize it isn't Rubinacci, I'm not sure what position you're in to determine whether a tailoring issue is worth debating or not.

I've never seen a Rubinacci in the wild. However, one day at Leffot I saw a guy wearing one. I asked if Rubi and boom, it was. I got like a million igent points instantly.
post #3254 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

You know, I agree that the most probable cause is not wadding. I suspect it isn't wadding to blame because the upturn is sometimes very acute--like a little horn at the shoulder tips. So, my best best is that it's caused by the way the armhole is cut (too big and high above the wearer's shoulders).

Finally, you've come round to what other people were writing about a million pages ago!
Now you should really retract all references to "pagoda shoulders" and most importantly denounce the repulsive and childish epithet that you invented: "pa-fucked".
post #3255 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorsod View Post

The biggest difference is in the DBs. Franks SB in the Neapolitan style also looks different to me.

Frank's neo-shoulder expression he's done for me: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
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