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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura - Page 215

post #3211 of 3944
Haven't NSM used different tailors in the past? Perhaps they no longer employ the hot-glue tailor. SG:chambray :: NSM:tailors?
post #3212 of 3944
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Vox has made a point of showing us that his Steed jackets are unpadded in the shoulders.

I don't believe he ever made that claim. Sub 'lightly' for 'un-' and you'd be on the right track.
post #3213 of 3944
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Vox has made a point of showing us that his Steed jackets are unpadded in the shoulders.

I can't say for Vox's Steed jackets - it's possible that he asked for a different kind of construction - but on my Steeds, for which I didn't direct them away from the house style, there is WAY more stuff in the shoulder line than on my NsM jackets. I don't know if what's in there would be called padding or wadding or what, but there is definitely significantly more of it than what's in my NsM jackets. The Steed is still soft relative to what you'd probably find in most coats, but it's not even close to the lightness of a NsM coat.
post #3214 of 3944
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Vox's stuff from Steed, IMO, is completely different than what he gets from NSM. I'm not sure they can be compared as one being better or worse than the other. Yes, his Steed stuff is more sculpted and draped in the chest, but that doesn't mean that any jacket without a sculpted or draped chest is "ill defined at best and haphazard at worst." If you take that view, then most tailors in England and Italy are terrible.

I didn't say a jacket needs a draped chest to be well-executed. I said the chest area of the NSM jacket in that photo is poorly shaped. You can call that sculpting if you like. The point is, the chest area of a jacket should be thoughtfully shaped in all three dimensions. That is true regardless of the school of tailoring, be it more soft and light or more heavy and structured.

There seems to be a trend of excusing all of NSM's faults on the basis that it is somehow unique and should not be judged by any standards. Dubious.
post #3215 of 3944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

I don't believe he ever made that claim. Sub 'lightly' for 'un-' and you'd be on the right track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

I can't say for Vox's Steed jackets - it's possible that he asked for a different kind of construction - but on my Steeds, for which I didn't direct them away from the house style, there is WAY more stuff in the shoulder line than on my NsM jackets. I don't know if what's in there would be called padding or wadding or what, but there is definitely significantly more of it than what's in my NsM jackets. The Steed is still soft relative to what you'd probably find in most coats, but it's not even close to the lightness of a NsM coat.

Vox explicitly stated there is no padding in his Steed shoulders. He did a squeeze demonstration to illustrate.

Anyway, I think you all need to stop excusing the pa-fucked NSM shoulders on the basis of the amount or placement of wadding/padding. The bottom line is that the resulting shape is bad and reflects a poorly executed natural shoulder. Whatever is to blame, there is no excuse for not fixing it.
post #3216 of 3944
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post


Vox explicitly stated there is no padding in his Steed shoulders. He did a squeeze demonstration to illustrate.

Anyway, I think you all need to stop excusing the pa-fucked NSM shoulders on the basis of the amount or placement of wadding/padding. The bottom line is that the resulting shape is bad and reflects a poorly executed natural shoulder. Whatever is to blame, there is no excuse for not fixing it.

You're getting tripped up by Vox's preference for the term wadding. The distinction is, in this regard, meaningless.

While i dont like it as much standing in front of a mirror, I can tell you that the Mina shoulder moves better (and I imagine looks better in action) than anything else I've experienced. I'm of the opinion that any attempt to make it look better standing still would detract from that.
post #3217 of 3944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

You're getting tripped up by Vox's preference for the term wadding. The distinction is, in this regard, meaningless.

While i dont like it as much standing in front of a mirror, I can tell you that the Mina shoulder moves better (and I imagine looks better in action) than anything else I've experienced. I'm of the opinion that any attempt to make it look better standing still would detract from that.

I'm not getting tripped up by anything. First of all, both Vox and I, as many others, use the two terms to make the same distinction. Second, I am tweet debating with him right now. Literally minutes ago, he explicitly reiterated that his Steed jackets have zero padding in the shoulder, and only some wadding near the scye. As you see in Rubinacci, and pretty much any other soft, natural shouldered jacket.

I don't understand how the upturn, which is hideous while stationary, suddenly looks good when moving. Is it because the motion blur makes it harder to see? I understand the concept of tailoring looking good in motion versus standing still. That has always been a standard marketing line of Mariano's. However, engineering a jacket to look good while moving does not justify wrongness when it is not. I have never been told by Mariano or Gennaro or anyone else at LH to ignore a flaw because it won't show when I'm moving around. It's not like the upturn in the NSM jackets has pixie dust that makes it easier for you to move. It is extra cloth (and maybe wadding) that doesn't even need to be there.

Really, there is no excuse. Every other notable tailor known for natural shoulders seems capable of evading the NSM artifact. Face it--it is a mistake. You can love it if you like, just like a mother can love an ugly baby. But it's still ugly.
post #3218 of 3944

I've lurked for a long time. I've thought very hard about what what I might post first. Here it is:

 

Foo, please let those who have purchased suits from NsM simply enjoy their clothes.

 

I think you have made your point (over and over again). Not only do you think the shoulder is ugly, it is a mistake. Others obviously disagree. Fine. I think folks get it.

 

Your status as an expert on the matter can be challenged thusly: There are more than a few pictures of you on this forum, in 'neopolitan' clothing, that would be very easy to ridicule as flawed in terms of both aesthetics and tailoring (I bring this up as relevant because your relationship with rubinacci has been referenced frequently). In fact, on your own tweed in the city blog you have a photo that exhibits the exact same shoulder line (convex leading to bump and then concave etc...and a distinctly bowed chest to boot), as the NsM line you loathe. It is in the archive of your trip to see Ambrosi, to whom you elevate to mythic tailoring status. And since we are talking about authenticity and pedigree and such. Let me reference something from that same archive. You say:

 

"It’s said he is a true artist and will charge you a price befitting your character. If you are judged a truly dishonest man (the worst thing a man can be), Ambrosi will make you wait years before finally presenting you with the trouser he’s made, then let you touch and feel them, so that you are absolutely convinced a finer pair of trousers does not exist in the world and never could, before suddenly ripping them from your hands and cutting them to shreds with his monstrous, ancient shears right before your eyes. Ambrosi is no peddler of wares, no merchant of goods. He’s not interested in your money. He gives and takes exactly what you deserve. Ambrosi, you’ll hear, does not suffer fools.

 

How did that turn out?

 

I know you think you are helping by pointing out the NsM flaw, but I AM CERTAIN BY NOW THAT YOUR POINT HAS BEEN DULY NOTED. 

 

BTW, I have seen these types of shoulders on many jackets (and someone else already posted a Solito with the same characteristics).

 

Enjoy your own clothes as superior, but stop spitting in everyone else's soup!
 

post #3219 of 3944
That grey jacket you refer to is not Rubinacci. It is Oxxford MTM. I was in Naples precisely for the purpose of replacing it (and my other Oxxford jackets). It has the upturn because the padding was removed after Oxxford made the shoulders wrong. Hence, the armhole is too big and high, creating the artifact. I've explained this again and again. It is a poorly executed jacket. If the NSM shoulders are similar in any way, well . . .

Honestly, if you cannot look at that jacket and instantly recognize it isn't Rubinacci, I'm not sure what position you're in to determine whether a tailoring issue is worth debating or not.
post #3220 of 3944
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I'm not sure what position you're in to determine whether a tailoring issue is worth debating or not.

 

I would hardly call this thread a 'debate'. A fatuous rant would be more apt.

post #3221 of 3944

I never said that the jacket I referenced was a Rubinacci, but rather that your relationship with Rubinacci is front and center and that even so, you still seem to find your way into ugly, ill fitting clothes (regardless of who made them)
 

post #3222 of 3944
I think Foo's point was that he recognized the issue and sought to remedy it by finding a new tailor whereas people who notice the issue with NSM continue to use them. Its a valid point, but again, at that price point, it is hard to find a travelling neapolitan tailor who can execute a suit "correctly" as possible. I find Ercole's does a great job and can execute a neapolitan silhouette quite nicely with a lot of handwork, but obviously not as much as you would find in a garment made in naples, where skilled labor is sourced much easier and cheaper. I would say the overall theme is consistency, and by foo's argument NSM is not consistent with what it puts out, some garments are fantastic and some are less than stellar.
post #3223 of 3944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post

I think Foo's point was that he recognized the issue and sought to remedy it by finding a new tailor whereas people who notice the issue with NSM continue to use them. Its a valid point, but again, at that price point, it is hard to find a travelling neapolitan tailor who can execute a suit "correctly" as possible. I find Ercole's does a great job and can execute a neapolitan silhouette quite nicely with a lot of handwork, but obviously not ask much as you would find going to naples directly, where skilled labor is sources much easier and cheaper

Thank you. Exactly.

I think Ercole makes a pretty damned decent product. I prefer what I've seen from them versus NSM, by a significant margin.
post #3224 of 3944
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9thsymph View Post

I never said that the jacket I referenced was a Rubinacci, but rather that your relationship with Rubinacci is front and center and that even so, you still seem to find your way into ugly, ill fitting clothes (regardless of who made them)

Are you really this dense?
post #3225 of 3944
"It’s said he is a true artist and will charge you a price befitting your character. If you are judged a truly dishonest man (the worst thing a man can be), Ambrosi will make you wait years before finally presenting you with the trouser he’s made, then let you touch and feel them, so that you are absolutely convinced a finer pair of trousers does not exist in the world and never could, before suddenly ripping them from your hands and cutting them to shreds with his monstrous, ancient shears right before your eyes. Ambrosi is no peddler of wares, no merchant of goods. He’s not interested in your money. He gives and takes exactly what you deserve. Ambrosi, you’ll hear, does not suffer fools.

 
[/quote]

I've chuckled at that post as well. Nicely highlighted.

Rob
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