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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura - Page 208

post #3106 of 3961
I have been charged quite a bit for alterations and repair work by one Savile Row tailor. I didn't mind being charged for the repair work (it was actually cleaning), but I did mind being charged for the alterations (different coat) because it was a coat whose fit I never really liked and still don't. That is among the reasons I stopped using them.

I am surprised Dino told someone to take their coat and have it altered locally. That is inconsistent with how I have been treated - would you mind finding the post as I don't really know what I am looking for? If true, that is too bad and a mistake on their part.
post #3107 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcodalondra View Post

Please read through this thread, I cannot remember who, but someone in here talked about Dino convincing him to accept delivery even though the jacket was tight and he took it to his local alteration tailor for letting it out and other examples to that effect.
When I buy bespoke I also expect a lifelong service on the garments. I have taken both jackets and trousers for alteration and other service (eg. Re-stitching a trouser cuff that came loose) for free. I would not take any of my bespoke garments at any local tailor, let the original tailor deal with it.

If we're thinking of the same poster, I believe the person in question had the same experience as me - the suggestion that the client try it out if they were unsure with the possibility of then bringing it back, but also a willingness to take it back then if that's what the client wanted.

Again, just to reiterate: NsM has NEVER asked me to use a local alterations tailor. I have brought back plenty of things for alteration, they have always accepted happily.

To clarify, Steed, which has, also offered to reimburse me for the charges on the trouser hem.
post #3108 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcodalondra View Post

Please read through this thread, I cannot remember who, but someone in here talked about Dino convincing him to accept delivery even though the jacket was tight and he took it to his local alteration tailor for letting it out and other examples to that effect.
When I buy bespoke I also expect a lifelong service on the garments. I have taken both jackets and trousers for alteration and other service (eg. Re-stitching a trouser cuff that came loose) for free. I would not take any of my bespoke garments at any local tailor, let the original tailor deal with it.

Aren't you local or at least in Europe? For those of us across the Atlantic you have to decide what is best done via the original tailor or what is okay to do locally. For example I have had the waist of my pants altered locally because I didn't want have to wait.
post #3109 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorsod View Post

Aren't you local or at least in Europe? For those of us across the Atlantic you have to decide what is best done via the original tailor or what is okay to do locally. For example I have had the waist of my pants altered locally because I didn't want have to wait.
Some of the local alterations aside I tend to agree with what marco is saying - as a general rule if you are going to partake in bespoke you need to be fully committed. For me that has meant trips to Europe for fittings and, at least initially, patience. It is obvious that NsM is popular for a reason - it makes (to a degree) inaccessible goods accessible. It is not without its limitations, however, and from the pics I've seen on this thread, along with the stories from several posters, the results are uneven. I think that is only to be expected - there is no substitute for dealing directly with the tailor / cutter.
post #3110 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Regarding that shoulder issue, I have no idea what NSM's explanation would be, but I am pretty sure that if someone said they didn't like it, Mina and Dino would simply have it changed.

Without taking sides, I think Foo's point about the shoulder is that it isn't intentional. If it's not intentional, NsM shouldn't have to wait for the customer to identify it and ask for a correction.
post #3111 of 3961
working with Solito requires trips to europe and even then you never know!
post #3112 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

Without taking sides, I think Foo's point about the shoulder is that it isn't intentional. If it's not intentional, NsM shouldn't have to wait for the customer to identify it and ask for a correction.
I have never seen one in person, and red lines aside, it is hard for me to tell what they really look like or whether it is something anyone would notice or care about. One of the worst offenders identified in this thread is actually a non-NSM RTW coat. There is a bit of a frenzy on this issue, but at the moment, I feel that I simply have no idea what I am looking at. Extrapolating from 2D photos and limited camera angles to the point where I can assume there is a persistent problem isn't something I am prepared to do, though I can also acknowledge that it may show something. I would feel more certain if I saw one in person or someone said "yes - my NSM shoulders point up at the tips." You may recall that Foo drew red lines all over medtech's coats, but medtech seemed very happy with them and never noticed anything. As I think about it, Vox may be the only person who wants the shoulders corrected and it is not clear he saw the problem at first either (or even that he thinks it is a mistake rather than a preference he doesn't share). Which is not to say that there may be an issue with some shoulders. Clearly though, there are many people for whom there is no shoulder issue at all.
post #3113 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post

Some of the local alterations aside I tend to agree with what marco is saying - as a general rule if you are going to partake in bespoke you need to be fully committed. For me that has meant trips to Europe for fittings and, at least initially, patience. It is obvious that NsM is popular for a reason - it makes (to a degree) inaccessible goods accessible. It is not without its limitations, however, and from the pics I've seen on this thread, along with the stories from several posters, the results are uneven. I think that is only to be expected - there is no substitute for dealing directly with the tailor / cutter.
Yep. Sometimes I really wish I had just settled in with someone local. I really envy the people who are loyal Ercole customers, but for some reason, I have never felt the draw. I really liked Raphael at first, but even before he took ill, there were too many issues.
post #3114 of 3961
I have often used the analogy of language to communicate ideas about style, tailoring, etc. Whnay touches on that point when he mentions the importance of "pedigree." I like the language analogy better, but the idea is similar: in tailoring, we deal with pre-established traditions, most of which were firmly developed a long time ago. There are chiefly two sorts of deviation from those traditions:

1. Purposeful attempts at innovation. Such deviations demand not to be judged by traditional norms. The tailor is trying to create a new language.
2. Deviations that are not purposeful. They happen by mistake. The tailor has made a grammatical error speaking the language he is obviously attempting to speak.

The problem I have with the NSM shoulder is that it is clearly the second sort of deviation. You only have to ask yourself: is Napoli Su Misura trying to sell a "Neapolitan" suit, or just new kind of suit that only happens to be made around Naples? I think the answer is obvious. Earlier I was accused of calling NSM fraudulent. Nothing could be further from the truth. I think they are genuinely attempting to sell a "Neapolitan" suit--but that is exactly why I think the shoulders are particularly egregious. I know of no reputed tailoring house in the world that makes shoulders like the upturned, unpadded ones we often see from NSM, and they are certainly not anything I've seen consistently produced by another Neapolitan tailor. Marco can confirm or deny if he likes. On a RTW jacket, they would be an unabashed eff-up.

We need to be careful about relativizing all judgment to the point of total meaninglessness. Yes, there are different "languages." Yes, there are different ways to speak them. And yes, it can be hard to make them out. However, any opinion of tailoring is dead from the onset if it does not grapple with a tailor's relationship to tradition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorsod View Post

Isn't this also a limitation of Rubinacci when they are traveling? I think it's not a bad idea to make it over to Naples once in a while to get adjustments and such.

Mariano is not a good example. Luigi Solito himself complimented Mariano as being a better fitter than most tailors in Naples.

That said, absolute best results always come from seeing Mariano/Luca with your cutter in attendance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

Without taking sides, I think Foo's point about the shoulder is that it isn't intentional. If it's not intentional, NsM shouldn't have to wait for the customer to identify it and ask for a correction.

Well, partially yes. A good tailor won't catch all mistakes automatically. Sometimes the client has to bring them to attention. That takes some skill and judgment on the part of the client.
post #3115 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post

Some of the local alterations aside I tend to agree with what marco is saying - as a general rule if you are going to partake in bespoke you need to be fully committed. For me that has meant trips to Europe for fittings and, at least initially, patience. It is obvious that NsM is popular for a reason - it makes (to a degree) inaccessible goods accessible. It is not without its limitations, however, and from the pics I've seen on this thread, along with the stories from several posters, the results are uneven. I think that is only to be expected - there is no substitute for dealing directly with the tailor / cutter.

I agree there is a benefit by going to the source but it is not an option for everyone. I visited Naples to adjust my first coat and fit the second.
post #3116 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Yep. Sometimes I really wish I had just settled in with someone local. I really envy the people who are loyal Ercole customers, but for some reason, I have never felt the draw. I really liked Raphael at first, but even before he took ill, there were too many issues.

How about Paul Winston? Are they no more? I know you have stuff by him.
post #3117 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorsod View Post

I agree there is a benefit by going to the source but it is not an option for everyone. I visited Naples to adjust my first coat and fit the second.
I guess what I'm saying is that if its not an option for you (and you don't view tailoring as high stakes gambling) you shouldn't do it. Or at least you should manage your expectations accordingly.
post #3118 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

How about Paul Winston? Are they no more? I know you have stuff by him.

As recently as last year he gave me a quick sales pitch to make a suit for me. I was just picking up some ties though so I didn't really get very far into the conversation with him.
post #3119 of 3961
Then again is style is somewhat distinctive. Somewhat meaning he will do anything you want, but it just feels wrong not getting something "trad" or at least very old school American.
post #3120 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

How about Paul Winston? Are they no more? I know you have stuff by him.
He is great, but his main product is not really bespoke and not the same caliber of construction (I think it is Greenfield, but I am not sure). I like it for Ivy-style summer stuff and the occasional Ivy style tweed sportcoat. On the other hand, I think of NSM in the same way - it is an idiosyncratic niche product, but not the backbone of my wardrobe (not counting the shirts, for which I do think of them as my main supplier).
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