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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura - Page 199

post #2971 of 3926

There should be the seam allowances, the wadding and probably the chest canvas there; you would find that on most coats. So yep, more than three layers. But it does look like the bump is created by the seam allowances - or is there an extra piece of wadding with that particular shape too?

 

I'm actually asking out of curiosity and pure interest, not stating anything - it's you who owns the jacket after all, and I haven't seen NSM stuff in real life.

 

Someone should send JefferyD a NSM jacket. tongue.gif

post #2972 of 3926
Has anyone discussed this issue with NSM yet?
Foo: You should come to their next NY visit and maybe bring one of the SF reporters to do a story.
post #2973 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDiaz View Post

There should be the seam allowances, the wadding and probably the chest canvas there; you would find that on most coats. So yep, more than three layers. But it does look like the bump is created by the seam allowances - or is there an extra piece of wadding with that particular shape too?

 

I'm actually asking out of curiosity and pure interest, not stating anything - it's you who owns the jacket after all, and I haven't seen NSM stuff in real life.

 

Someone should send JefferyD a NSM jacket. tongue.gif

 

Much more interested in reading expert opinions instead of hobbyist conjectures.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Has anyone discussed this issue with NSM yet?
Foo: You should come to their next NY visit and maybe bring one of the SF reporters to do a story.

 

I would but I am not able to be be as articulate as Foo.

 

Would be very interested to read a story on Foo vs. NSM STHTSHN shoulders.

post #2974 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDiaz View Post

There should be the seam allowances, the wadding and probably the chest canvas there; you would find that on most coats. So yep, more than three layers. But it does look like the bump is created by the seam allowances - or is there an extra piece of wadding with that particular shape too?

I'm actually asking out of curiosity and pure interest, not stating anything - it's you who owns the jacket after all, and I haven't seen NSM stuff in real life.

Someone should send JefferyD a NSM jacket. tongue.gif

Yes, but it's kind of moot. That raised impression, which follows the circumference of the scye, is not what I mean when I harp on about the problem with the shoulder line. If you look at any jacket with shirt-set sleeves under the right lighting, you will see such a raised impression. Moreover, it is not causing the problem. The inversion of the shoulder line's curvature often starts well before it.
post #2975 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Has anyone discussed this issue with NSM yet?
Foo: You should come to their next NY visit and maybe bring one of the SF reporters to do a story.

I'm trying to get people to see there even is an issue first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Much more interested in reading expert opinions instead of hobbyist conjectures.

I'm not trying to play expert. I've said again and again, I'm only guessing at what the cause could be.

However, you don't need to be a tailoring expert to see that something is wonky about these shoulders. Maybe that takes expertise looking at these things, but I look at these things a lot. Anyway, I think an astute eye is really all you need.
post #2976 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post


I'm trying to get people to see there even is an issue first.
I'm not trying to play expert. I've said again and again, I'm only guessing at what the cause could be.

However, you don't need to be a tailoring expert to see that something is wonky about these shoulders. Maybe that takes expertise looking at these things, but I look at these things a lot. Anyway, I think an astute eye is really all you need.

 

You are right, there's something interesting and different about those shoulders. 

 

I am very interested to learn how those effects are created.  Or from a more cynical point of view, the (in)deliberate decision in choosing the effect.  Without firsthand experience, any one of us can only be doing what you and others have done - guessing.

post #2977 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

You are right, there's something interesting and different about those shoulders. 

I am very interested to learn how those effects are created.  Or from a more cynical point of view, the (in)deliberate decision in choosing the effect.  Without firsthand experience, any one of us can only be doing what you and others have done - guessing.

About the exact technical explanation for why it's happening, sure.

But if you are well-acquainted with the different ways shoulder lines are expressed, you can plainly see that something is wrong here. It is not a deliberate choice. Consider that both convex (natural) and concave (pagoda) shoulders have been discussed ad nauseam, and it's not really a mystery how you get the shoulder line to curve this way or that.

Also, I find it highly implausible that NSM decided that, as part of their campaign to sell Neapolitan bespoke clothing to foreigners, they decided to invent a new style of shoulder that is highly irregular (to put it mildly) for a Neapolitan jacket. Where is the sense in that? Not only is it not "Neapolitan" in any meaningful way, but it also isn't established as a style of shoulder anywhere else.
post #2978 of 3926

I know you are based in NYC but still want to offer you to join me in my next meeting w/ NSM @ SF.  Your astute observations and articulation will serve this thread well, beyond the current dead horse beating binge. 

post #2979 of 3926
JeffreyD IS an expert.
post #2980 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWraith View Post

JeffreyD IS an expert.

Why, just because he makes suits for a living? That does not make him an expert. He needs to spend more time on the Interwebz posting and looking at pictures to be classified as any sort of expert. Pfffttt.
post #2981 of 3926
lol8[1].gif
post #2982 of 3926
I will leave it to you learned gentelmen to continue the search for the cause and sufffice to let you in on the cure:


1 minute with an iron make the "problem" go away completely and there you have it; the neapolitan camicia shoulder!!!: bigstar[1].gif
post #2983 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

That makes even less sense.

First of all, tailoring is intrinsically about how a garment takes shape. To make something without respect to its appearance is not a legitimate preference--it's a mask for laziness or incompetence, or both. Think of all the manner of garbage a tailor could get away with upon such "preferences." So, yes, I prefer "lines." That is how you judge tailoring.

Also--and I'm beginning to feel like I'm arguing against an army of NSM-programmed web-bots--there is wadding in the NSM jacket shoulders. You said it yourself. The difference between it and my Rubinacci jackets (which are unpadded except for wadding at the edges of the shoulder) is where the wadding is positioned, how much is used, and perhaps, how it is shaped.

To eliminate the cancerous upswing in the NSM shoulder line, you need less wadding, not more. You are arguing as if that little inverted curvature is inevitable given "the absence of padding." Not so at all.

I believe that you are exactly correct. In fact, to me the Mina "absence of padding" looks like nascent "pagoda shoulders"

http://www.mensflair.com/style-advice/suit-shoulders-the-rope-shoulder-and-pagoda.php
post #2984 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butler View Post

I will leave it to you learned gentelmen to continue the search for the cause and sufffice to let you in on the cure:


1 minute with an iron make the "problem" go away completely and there you have it; the neapolitan camicia shoulder!!!: bigstar[1].gif

Whenever a tailor tells you to "fix" something by ironing it, he means: "Umm. Yeah, so I'm not even going to acknowledge there's an issue, because that would require me to actually fix it. I'd rather just fuck with you."
post #2985 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

I know you are based in NYC but still want to offer you to join me in my next meeting w/ NSM @ SF.  Your astute observations and articulation will serve this thread well, beyond the current dead horse beating binge. 

Ha, well, if I happen to by in San Francisco at the time, or if you want to fly me out there, I'm game.

However, I really think the easiest way is just to point out the issue on your own. It sounds like Mina is eager to fix problems.
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