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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura - Page 198

post #2956 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

This is terrible reasoning.

A good tailor would modify the type/amount of padding or wadding for the cloth and degree of shoulder extension. Evidently, NSM does not. That in and of itself is a big error. It's as if they are rotely following the instructions for a wadded, extended shoulder (where the wadding is used to keep the shoulder line from completely collapsing), but not adjusting the proportions or position of the wadding for less shoulder extension.


You can choose your line or your padding but not both.

You prefer lines. Mina prefers the absence of padding. Those two statements are fairly unrelated to each other.
post #2957 of 3961
foo, Cantabrigian - thanks for the replies. Weird, I have the 520 as well, but mine looks a good bit lighter. Maybe its just my screen.
post #2958 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

You can choose you line or your padding but not both.

You prefer lines. Mina prefers the absence of padding. Those two statements are fairly unrelated to each other.

That makes even less sense.

First of all, tailoring is intrinsically about how a garment takes shape. To make something without respect to its appearance is not a legitimate preference--it's a mask for laziness or incompetence, or both. Think of all the manner of garbage a tailor could get away with upon such "preferences." So, yes, I prefer "lines." That is how you judge tailoring.

Also--and I'm beginning to feel like I'm arguing against an army of NSM-programmed web-bots--there is wadding in the NSM jacket shoulders. You said it yourself. The difference between it and my Rubinacci jackets (which are unpadded except for wadding at the edges of the shoulder) is where the wadding is positioned, how much is used, and perhaps, how it is shaped.

To eliminate the cancerous upswing in the NSM shoulder line, you need less wadding, not more. You are arguing as if that little inverted curvature is inevitable given "the absence of padding." Not so at all.
post #2959 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

To eliminate the cancerous upswing in the NSM shoulder line, you need less wadding, not more.

I'll go ahead and ignore your ranting, if you don't mind.

But this bit is factually incorrect. You would either need to add some padding further up the shoulder or else extend the shoulder - but extending this sort of shoulder would invariably look worse, which is why Mina refuses to do it.
post #2960 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

I'll go ahead and ignore your ranting, if you don't mind.

But this bit is factually incorrect. You would either need to add some padding further up the shoulder or else extend the shoulder - but extending this sort of shoulder would invariably look worse, which is why Mina refuses to do it.

You would only need padding further up the shoulder line or to extend the shoulder if there is too much wadding at the scye. Reducing the wadding is the more sensible, and I thought, painfully obvious, solution. The very function of wadding is to prevent the shoulder line from collapsing. If you are putting in so much that the shoulder line curves upward, you've obviously used too much. Again, you are arguing as if certain things are given, when they are not. There is no Biblical commandment stating that a certain amount of wadding must be used. It has a function. Evidently, NSM just inserts it indiscriminately. That is not validating.

Also, why would you ever want a soft, drapey Neapolitan jacket if you think shoulder extension is intrinsically bad? Rubinacci, Solito, Panico, etc., do it as standard practice. It is largely responsible for the "drape" between the arm and the chest, actually.
post #2961 of 3961
Look at the photos again - how much STHTSHN do you think is in the NSM jacket?




post #2962 of 3961
Doesn't Luca make his coats from the Milan office?
post #2963 of 3961

I've said it before and will say it again - from the pics, it looks like the reason the shoulder line curves upward has nothing to do with wadding nor padding, but with how the jacket follows your actual shoulder line, and how the shoulder seam is shaped. If wadding was to blame you would see the upwards curve on the hanger too, but you don't. I get that sort of curve when my acromion is pushing on the jacket's front more than it should.

post #2964 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

Look at the photos again - how much STHTSHN do you think is in the NSM jacket?

The upswing in the curvature is either caused by the way the jacket is cut, or by the presence of excess wadding. You've reported that, in your case, there is wadding there. Well, the answer then is simply: too much.
post #2965 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorsod View Post

Doesn't Luca make his coats from the Milan office?

Yes, but he does have some things worked on in Naples.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDiaz View Post

I've said it before and will say it again - from the pics, it looks like the reason the shoulder line curves upward has nothing to do with wadding nor padding, but with how the jacket follows your actual shoulder line, and how the shoulder seam is shaped. If wadding was to blame you would see the upwards curve on the hanger too, but you don't. I get that sort of curve when my acromion is pushing on the jacket's front more than it should.

I was going with the wadding theory on the basis of Cantabrigian's report.

However, I think the problem in most cases is more likely that the armhole circumference is cut too large and high. That is why others report feeling empty space under the upswing. Nobody's natural shoulder looks like that, short of some strange medical condition.
post #2966 of 3961
As Marley said to Scrooge, why do you doubt the evidence of your own eyes?

Look at the closeups of the sleevehead. How could you possibly have less STHTSHN?
post #2967 of 3961
Honestly, who the hell cares, the points have been made on both sides, the shoulder expression is not a life and death matter, so it curves up a bit, so it doesn't. I think people are aware of the "issue"
Posting new pics of fits, nsm, rubi or anyone's work, would be more beneficial. I doubt any tailor/house in naples will take a person's explanation of why a problem exists into account. From their pov, the customer doesnt know enough to say anything of meaning, even if they do. Am I wrong to believe this?
post #2968 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

As Marley said to Scrooge, why do you doubt the evidence of your own eyes?

Look at the closeups of the sleevehead. How could you possibly have less STHTSHN?

First of all, what you were highlighting in your original post isn't the wadding. That is the combined seam allowance of the jacket body and sleeve, folded over to the jacket side. Hence, "spalla camicia." Wadding is a semicircular piece of cloth that lies on top of the shoulder, at the scye.

Second, my eyes see plenty well. You've simply confused the evidence. Ultimately, there should not be that upswing at the shoulder line's ends. It is not due to your own shoulder shape--your shoulders don't curve upward at the tips do they? Didn't think so. You aren't a gargoyle. Hence, we know the jacket itself is structured in such a way as to create the upswing. So, we also know it could be cut or made differently as to not create it. That is, unless, gravity works the other way around over your shoulder ends.

If it is wadding that contributes to the upswing, then use less of it. If the jacket is cut too large around and above the armhole (which, I suspect, is the true problem), then the tailor needs to be more astute with his tailoring.
post #2969 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

That is the combined seam allowance of the jacket body and sleeve, folded over to the jacket side.

About that, you are wrong.

There is more there than three layers of cloth.
post #2970 of 3961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

About that, you are wrong.

There is more there than three layers of cloth.

Yes, because the wadding is included in it. But it is not just the wadding.
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