or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura - Page 193

post #2881 of 3926

That is a nice cloth to be sure. Although something about it reminds me of Ben Silver.
 

post #2882 of 3926
Choice of cloth aside, this might be Rubinacci's style, but I feel those lapels are so wide they're swallowing his frame up. But it's indeed hard to tell without the coat buttoned and the shoulders showing.
post #2883 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by bboysdontcryy View Post

How long were you in Naples for, and how many fittings did you get for this?

For that coat, zero days in Naples and one fitting before it was finished - I met Mariano in NY
post #2884 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprout2 View Post

That is a nice cloth to be sure. Although something about it reminds me of Ben Silver.

I've killed people for less than that.
post #2885 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post


Not intentionally though it's wound up being a one-off at least for now.

The one jacket I have from them is good, not great. Mariano did an okay job of fitting - just okay. I was underwhelmed, especially when considering the price.

 

I've heard of this before. Would really like to hear more opinions on the matter.

post #2886 of 3926
So after looking carefully, I'm 99% certain I've figured out what causes the ski jump at the end of the shoulder line.

I was wrong on the seam allowance guess (and, in retrospect, that seems like a pretty dumb supposition)

There is literally no padding in the shoulder until you get to that point. So what Jeffrey posted is completely absent in this case. That is, however, until you get to the shoulder seam. Sewed into that seam is a semicircle of something - padding, wadding, something esle. I'd surmise that padding is to help the sleeve fall gradually away from the shoulder rather than simply dropping off.

This also explains why the trap bump is so pronounced. Other soft shoulders have some sort of padding so that bump is a little smoother but NSM has none of that.

So this isn't a mistake and is a consequence of something I like - i.e. the incredible softness / lightness of their jackets.

I don't, however, like the look of the shoulder ski jump. I still expect that it will come down a bit with time, though never entirely.

In the end it seems to be a choice between more padding in the rest of the shoulder and this look.
post #2887 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Or, you could be willing to pay a premium for consistency and time-proven execution. Whatever NSM's other strengths and weaknesses, it is a new business. A big part of my choice to go with Rubinacci was that I wanted a house that had been around a while and I could be confident would be around in the future. Not of all us think of clothes piece by piece. If you understand that bespoke is about relationships more than individual products, you might see more appeal in paying for established firms. In fact, I think that is simply the right way to approach bespoke.

Along the same lines, there is a much clearer picture of what Rubinacci produces than what NSM produces. This is not a knock against NSM, just an acknowledgement that as a new operation using tailors whose work is not as prolific or well-known, it is much harder to know what you will get. That is, unless you subscribe to the (wrong-headed) school that you can simply instruct your tailor to give you exactly what you want--as if tailors can be so instructed and as if you know how to so instruct. Case in point, Coolpapa's NSM jacket here looks a lot different (better, in my opinion) than most other examples of NSM posted. Why the difference? Did Coolpapa ask for it that way? Did NSM use different tailors at the time? Were they still developing their house style? So many variables.

Finally, how a piece of bespoke clothing feels to the wearer is infinitely more important than whether others can tell who made it. That is truly what you are paying for--or at least should be.

Very astute observations.

My alterations tailor told me that when Oxxford was a smaller outfit, every single one of their tailors was A+/top notch, but that as time went on and they expanded to being carried at every NM/Saks/etc. in the country, they had to fill their workrooms with tailors who didn't have the same level of training and the quality declined.

LH is seeing meteoric growth right now (even Lapo has converted, which is telling, because just a couple years ago, he was Luca's style hero.)

What will be interesting to see is if they can keep growing and maintain their storied level of consistency.
post #2888 of 3926
That is my assessment as well. I also find that for heavier fabric, such as the lesser 16, the wadding is more weighed down and gives a rounder shoulder appearance.
post #2889 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

So after looking carefully, I'm 99% certain I've figured out what causes the ski jump at the end of the shoulder line.

I was wrong on the seam allowance guess (and, in retrospect, that seems like a pretty dumb supposition)

There is literally no padding in the shoulder until you get to that point. So what Jeffrey posted is completely absent in this case. That is, however, until you get to the shoulder seam. Sewed into that seam is a semicircle of something - padding, wadding, something esle. I'd surmise that padding is to help the sleeve fall gradually away from the shoulder rather than simply dropping off.

This also explains why the trap bump is so pronounced. Other soft shoulders have some sort of padding so that bump is a little smoother but NSM has none of that.

So this isn't a mistake and is a consequence of something I like - i.e. the incredible softness / lightness of their jackets.

I don't, however, like the look of the shoulder ski jump. I still expect that it will come down a bit with time, though never entirely.

In the end it seems to be a choice between more padding in the rest of the shoulder and this look.

I don't think that's it. My Rubinacci jackets are fully unpadded in the shoulder except for that same semi-circular piece of wadding where the shoulder meets the sleevehead. The Solito jacket's I've seen are the same. I think the issue is with how NSM has cut and shaped the pattern of the jacket.

Think about it this way. If the wadding is truly creating the "ski jump," then the jacket wasn't cut right to accommodate it. That is a mistake. Evidently, other tailors are able to incorporate such wadding without the same ugly effect.
post #2890 of 3926
What youre' saying is pretty self-evidently impossible. And I suspect that your misception is borne of confusing very lightly padded / wadded at the end of the shoulder with zero shoulder padding until the sleevehead.

How would you go about cutting a shoulder to accomodate nothing then something without some transition? The shoulder of the coat has to rest on your shoulder - or else it will fall down in odd dimples. When there is suddenly something between your shoulder and the jacket shoulder, there will - necessarily - be a bump.

Solito definitely uses some wadding before the sleevehead. It's very soft so you don't really feel it / notice.
post #2891 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

What youre' saying is pretty self-evidently impossible. And I suspect that your misception is borne of confusing very lightly padded / wadded at the end of the shoulder with zero shoulder padding until the sleevehead.

How would you go about cutting a shoulder to accomodate nothing then something without some transition? The shoulder of the coat has to rest on your shoulder - or else it will fall down in odd dimples. When there is suddenly something between your shoulder and the jacket shoulder, there will - necessarily - be a bump.

Solito definitely uses some wadding before the sleevehead. It's very soft so you don't really feel it / notice.

Yes, both Solito and Rubinacci use the same semi-circular wadding before the sleevehead that you describe you in your NSM jacket. Yet, only NSM jackets seem to consistently suffer from the "ski jump" effect. Thus, it is not the wadding itself that is to blame. Otherwise, we would see the same issue on the non-NSM jackets mentioned. I'm not sure how much more minutely I can spell that out.

The use of wadding (how much of it, how it is shaped, where it is placed, etc.), combined with how the jacket shoulder is cut will naturally effect the shape of the shoulder. If there is too much wadding, placed improperly, I can easily imagine the shoulder curvature inverting. Perhaps NSM inserts it too far short of the sleevehead, for example. Maybe it is a failure to adjust to each client. The ultimate point is that, looking at other soft shouldered, unpadded shoulders with similar wadding, it shouldn't be necessary to wait for the "ski jump" to settle down. Telling yourself NSM implemented such an odd and unnecessary inconvenience on purpose doesn't actually speak well of NSM at all. As a client, I'd much rather believe it is a mistake--then, they might fix it.
post #2892 of 3926
It's not the same wadding.

They use something in addition to what NSM does.
post #2893 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabrigian View Post

It's not the same wadding.

They use something in addition to what NSM does.

Not on my Rubinacci jackets, and not in the Solito jackets I've inspected. Luigi's own, for example. That little piece of semi-circular wadding is all there usually is.

At any rate, no small amount of wadding elsewhere is going to mitigate an inversion of the shoulder line, if there is in fact so much semi-circular wadding near the sleavehead to cause the jacket to swoop upward from your shoulder. To undo the inversion, you'd need at least an even amount of padding throughout the whole shoulder of the jacket. That clearly is not present on either Solito or Rubinacci examples.
post #2894 of 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaymanS View Post

Very astute observations.

My alterations tailor told me that when Oxxford was a smaller outfit, every single one of their tailors was A+/top notch, but that as time went on and they expanded to being carried at every NM/Saks/etc. in the country, they had to fill their workrooms with tailors who didn't have the same level of training and the quality declined.

LH is seeing meteoric growth right now (even Lapo has converted, which is telling, because just a couple years ago, he was Luca's style hero.)

What will be interesting to see is if they can keep growing and maintain their storied level of consistency.
I don't think LH has experienced meteoric growth, in fact, I think Mariano (or maybe it was Luca) have stated publicly that they're limited to about 1000 suits a year, or something like that.
post #2895 of 3926
Aren't they taking out full-page magazine ads? Odd expenditure for a firm limited to 1,000 suits a year.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura