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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura - Page 185

post #2761 of 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDiaz View Post

Perhaps my tailor did indeed attempt to "pagodize" the shoulder to account for my forward clavicle?

Yes exactly. It is the forward pressure of the shoulder point against the coat that causes the twist so we work the shoulder forward. It may be that the NSM only go up and not forward, possibly because of the backward shoulder seam.

Once upon a time there was a photo on this forum from a movie. A burgundy suit that Logsdail had made. Probably the best example of the shoulder execution.
post #2762 of 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post

No I agree with you that the results from NSM seemed to be a mixed bag - some of it looks great, other stuff not so much. If someone wants my opinion on NSM it I'll give it to them and do think that SF is at its best when things can be debated openly. And I stand by my comments about the refund if we are to believe the OP. But people are going to do what they are going to do - using NSM for some is because they want something "Neapolitan", some do it because they think its a good bang for the buck, the list goes on...

Its not something I thought much about personally, Mina is very nice and she does know her stuff but between the distance, the revolving doors of tailors and the styling it wasn't right for me. My approach was that, if I could afford it, LH was the logical choice - its the most authentic accessible (as in they visit the US often and you get your stuff when they say you will) tailor in Naples with an established staff and good pedigree.

I guess what I'm saying in a long-winded way is that you are beating a dead horse.

You don't have to convince me on Rubinacci, buddy. We are on the same ticket, in the same boat, etc.

I don't mind what NSM is doing. In many ways, I really like the concept. It's about time someone in Naples began to take their foreign business seriously. Clearly, they are better at customer service than most. However, I think many are too quick to love what they get from them, merely because it is "Neapolitan." Now, in real life, I could not care less. I'm not walking around commenting on shoulder lines. You know me enough to know that. But this forum is only unsucky when people actually relish talking about such things.

I think the wonky shoulder line could be easily addressed, which is why it's such a shame people are so quick to defend it as a feature--which is just totally, absurdly ridiculous. In other words: the horse might be dead, but I'm going to keep trying, because it might not be yet.
post #2763 of 3849
There used to be pic floating around of two Solito coats (for the same client) side by side that showed a pagoda shoulder and a natural shoulder. Foo would have approved of both.
post #2764 of 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

You don't have to convince me on Rubinacci, buddy. We are on the same ticket, in the same boat, etc.

I don't mind what NSM is doing. In many ways, I really like the concept. It's about time someone in Naples began to take their foreign business seriously. Clearly, they are better at customer service than most. However, I think many are too quick to love what they get from them, merely because it is "Neapolitan." Now, in real life, I could not care less. I'm not walking around commenting on shoulder lines. You know me enough to know that. But this forum is only unsucky when people actually relish talking about such things.

I think the wonky shoulder line could be easily addressed, which is why it's such a shame people are so quick to defend it as a feature--which is just totally, absurdly ridiculous. In other words: the horse might be dead, but I'm going to keep trying, because it might not be yet.
Why not just call Mina?
post #2765 of 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferyd View Post


Yes exactly. It is the forward pressure of the shoulder point against the coat that causes the twist so we work the shoulder forward. It may be that the NSM only go up and not forward, possibly because of the backward shoulder seam.

Once upon a time there was a photo on this forum from a movie. A burgundy suit that Logsdail had made. Probably the best example of the shoulder execution.

 

 

I see. He said he was going to modify the coat to account for forward shoulders, but I don't know what he did exactly. The armscye did end up in an optimal position, but the shoulder ended up concave in the "pa-fucked" way, which I strongly dislike.

 

This is a bit off-topic, but is it possible to have a true convex, natural shoulder on a coat when one has a forward clavicle?

post #2766 of 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post

Why not just call Mina?

I suggest any client of hers do just that. She sounds really nice. I'm sure she'd be happy to fix the problem for them--they just have to recognize it's a problem first.

I for one learned a lot from Styleforum, AAAC and LL back in the day. They helped me most in dictating what I think is right or wrong to a tailor. Any tailor, no matter how well-meaning, is still in the business to make money. Nothing wrong with that. Hence, they will always be somewhat inclined to push back unless you are certain something is wrong. That's what this forum can be really great for: as a roundtable for figuring out what's wrong and what to tell our tailors.

If you just ask Mina about the shoulder, there is a fifty percent chance she'll simply write it off because you are a silly client who worries too much. On the other hand, if you very specifically (and politely, of course) spell out the issue, she will be more likely to attend to it seriously. I know we have both had similar experiences with Rubinacci.

So, that is not a knock against Mina or tailors in general. It's just a lesson on how to deal with any professional.
post #2767 of 3849
The likelihood that they are not aware of this thread is pretty low.
post #2768 of 3849
I forget: how many pages did it take to convince everyone that divots are a problem?
post #2769 of 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferyd View Post

Yes exactly. It is the forward pressure of the shoulder point against the coat that causes the twist so we work the shoulder forward. It may be that the NSM only go up and not forward, possibly because of the backward shoulder seam.

Once upon a time there was a photo on this forum from a movie. A burgundy suit that Logsdail had made. Probably the best example of the shoulder execution.

The pagoda shoulder that I think is really amazing is Cifonelli. I can't resist trying it any longer.
post #2770 of 3849
It may have to do with the part where the shoulder pads are machine sewn to the canvas and cloth. This is the step either immediately before the sleeves are mounted or after. I think if the coatmaker is alerted to this problem, it will disappear quite quickly. But then the shoulder will be mildly droopy overall.
post #2771 of 3849
The problem may only be apparent with customers who have rounded shoulders. With these sort of shoulders, the entire jacket is suspended off a point about 3/4 of the shoulder. From there to the tip of the shoulder, the jacket shoulder is unsupported, with a pocket of air between human shoulder and jacket. Then, at the sleevehead area, two or more rows of machine stitches go through the pads and canvas and cloth, tacking (and compressing) them.

The way I've dealt with this is to heavily pad stitch the shoulder pads with a layer of chest canvas as though we are executing concave shoulders. Shoulders are pressed flat etc. Only then do you get a straight shoulder line with these sort of customers.

Without this additional measure, the shoulder line is droopy or droopy+upslant.
post #2772 of 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by medtech_expat View Post


That makes it look like it has something to do with where the shoulder seem sits relative to the position and shape of the trapezius.
post #2773 of 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

If you just ask Mina about the shoulder, there is a fifty percent chance she'll simply write it off because you are a silly client who worries too much. On the other hand, if you very specifically (and politely, of course) spell out the issue, she will be more likely to attend to it seriously. I know we have both had similar experiences with Rubinacci.

So, that is not a knock against Mina or tailors in general. It's just a lesson on how to deal with any professional.

Good advice, though I've personally found Mina to be very accommodating. I don't think she'd write off questions or comments from a client under any circumstances. I actually think that her & Dino's attitudes, which are much less intimidating than your average traveling bespoke tailor (or whatever you want to call them), is as essential to NSM's recent success as the actual work.
post #2774 of 3849
FWIW, fit aside, they're extremely accommodating and I find them a pleasure to deal with.
post #2775 of 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by bboysdontcryy View Post

FWIW, fit aside, they're extremely accommodating and I find them a pleasure to deal with.

How about the fit of the garments they make for you? Would you wish they could be improved?
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