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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura - Page 184

post #2746 of 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay. View Post

I like clothes, I really do. But you guys love them....

Too cool for school now?
post #2747 of 3954
In all seriousness, thank you, Jeffery.

Foo is right that on my NSM jacket, at the shoulder bone, the jacket rises a bit. If you were to run your hand along the shoulder, you would hit a bit of fabric right at the shoulder bone where the jacket rises. There is some empty space there. I suppose like you would have on a pagoda jacket (I can only assume since I've never worn one).

Is the issue then more about the bump at the midpoint of the shoulder? So on med-tech's coat, if we just curved that out a bit, we'd have a regular pagoda shoulder. Is this the point, that NSM has a pagoda near the sleevehead, but the mid point doesn't curve out in the same way, but rather has a "bump?"

I do see this bump on other jackets, such as those from Rubinacci. Some people have said this is because of a person's natural body coupled with a fully "natural" shoulder, but I have no technical training to say either way. Your thoughts?

Edit: I suppose to Foo's point, you could also just get rid of the shoulder joint bump near the sleevehead, and make this full "non-pagoda"
post #2748 of 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Yes, you could go that way and make it true pagoda. Or you could go the other way and make it true natural. Given the inverting nature of the line as is, I find it impossible to determine what it is genuinely meant to be.

I suppose one way to check the intention of the tailor is to cut open the jacket and see if there has been any modification of the canvas at the shoulder to purposefully make it curve upward.

The upward swoop is the difficult part to get right- it never happens by accident. It is very clear that they have attempted a pagoda shoulder.
post #2749 of 3954
Dieworkwear, talking about a single bump implies a single curve. What we are seeing is not a bump or a single curve, but two opposite curves. If you attach a concave curve to a convex one, it won't matter how much you extend the former. You will always have that ugly flip-flop.
post #2750 of 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferyd View Post

The upward swoop is the difficult part to get right- it never happens by accident. It is very clear that they have attempted a pagoda shoulder.

Then why does the shoulder start out convex, like a natural shoulder? It looks like a natural shoulder two-thirds to three-fourths of the way toward the armscye.
post #2751 of 3954

I think we are not saying that NSM style shoulder lines would be bad, if they were an actual style done on purpose. If that was so, it would be all down to personal taste. 

The problem is that this sort of shoulder line resembles a badly fitted natural shoulder, or a badly executed pagoda.

post #2752 of 3954
I am not wearing one of NSM jackets today but I do have this inverted shoulder on pretty much all of my jackets from them. One thing I noticed is that the arm hole is cut pretty high and almost protrudes, Foo wrote that it might have to do with the way armscye is done. I am starting to think that this is actually an issue that has to do with the armhole. Thoughts?
post #2753 of 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Then why does the shoulder start out convex, like a natural shoulder?

That's actually the part that's wrong. It shouldn't do that. The part that is curving upward should curve downward so the the weight of the coat sits exactly there on the body, not on the shoulder points which should hinge forward and maybe slightly upward.
post #2754 of 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferyd View Post


The upward swoop is the difficult part to get right- it never happens by accident. It is very clear that they have attempted a pagoda shoulder.

 

In the jacket I posted previously, there is upward swoop that happened by accident. Perhaps my tailor did indeed attempt to "pagodize" the shoulder to account for my forward clavicle? I have to say the twist was not so pronounced (even though there was still some) before the tailor modified it, although the armscye was like 3 cm behind my actual arm.

post #2755 of 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDiaz View Post

I think we are not saying that NSM style shoulder lines would be bad, if they were an actual style done on purpose. If that was so, it would be all down to personal taste. 
The problem is that this sort of shoulder line resembles a badly fitted natural shoulder, or a badly executed pagoda.

Yes! Exactly. I find it hard to believe one could genuinely prefer it this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by forex View Post

I am not wearing one of NSM jackets today but I do have this inverted shoulder on pretty much all of my jackets from them. One thing I noticed is that the arm hole is cut pretty high and almost protrudes, Foo wrote that it might have to do with the way armscye is done. I am starting to think that this is actually an issue that has to do with the armhole. Thoughts?

In my older MTM jackets, it was definitely the armhole that was the problem. It was cut to accommodate more wadding and padding up top than the jacket ultimately wound up with.
post #2756 of 3954
Someone needs to send JeffreyD an NSM coat.
post #2757 of 3954
This, I think, is a properly executed pagoda? On a frd's coat. That 'issue' stated doesn't arise here.

Smth shld teach me how to use 'spoilers'

post #2758 of 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferyd View Post

That's actually the part that's wrong. It shouldn't do that. The part that is curving upward should curve downward so the the weight of the coat sits exactly there on the body, not on the shoulder points which should hinge forward and maybe slightly upward.

But this is assuming the goal is a pagoda shoulder to begin with, in which case, I certainly agree: the shoulder should never be convex anywhere. However, I'm not convinced the goal is a pagoda shoulder.

It doesn't matter at any rate. To me, the important thing to realize is that, regardless of what the shoulder is supposed to be, it is wrong as is. There shouldn't be a flip-flopping of curvature in either a pagoda or natural shoulder.
post #2759 of 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Too cool for school now?
No I agree with you that the results from NSM seemed to be a mixed bag - some of it looks great, other stuff not so much. If someone wants my opinion on NSM it I'll give it to them and do think that SF is at its best when things can be debated openly. And I stand by my comments about the refund if we are to believe the OP. But people are going to do what they are going to do - using NSM for some is because they want something "Neapolitan", some do it because they think its a good bang for the buck, the list goes on...

Its not something I thought much about personally, Mina is very nice and she does know her stuff but between the distance, the revolving doors of tailors and the styling it wasn't right for me. My approach was that, if I could afford it, LH was the logical choice - its the most authentic accessible (as in they visit the US often and you get your stuff when they say you will) tailor in Naples with an established staff and good pedigree.

I guess what I'm saying in a long-winded way is that you are beating a dead horse.
post #2760 of 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by bboysdontcryy View Post

This, I think, is a properly executed pagoda? On a frd's coat. That problem stated doesn't arise here.

Smth shld teach me how to use 'spoilers'
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Yeah, that looks like a true pagoda. No convexity.
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