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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura - Page 167

post #2491 of 4189
Originally Posted by Eustace Tilley View Post


I noticed in a recent interview you cited Solito as your 'go-to' tailor for the foreseeable future. Curious how you intend to place future orders - are you also transitioning to a no-fittings model like whnay / Foo?

Foo: my coats from Mina are quite a bit more relaxed than her default model. She's relatively flexible.

I do fittings for things that are completely new forms. Otherwise, I typically go straight to finished product. Whatever changes need to be made are very minimal, so it isn't a problem.

In a couple of instances where the mistakes could not be fixed, the tailor simply remade the garment.
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Matt, I'm unclear what you dislike about the shoulder line. It has a sloped and swooping effect, vaguely pagoda like, though not really. Chris Despos has pointed out that the shoulder line can sometimes be a bit bumpy. That I see, both on examples posted here and on my own jacket. I'm not a tailoring expert, so I can't say what might be the cause for that. I agree the line would be better without it. But what is it about the NSM shoulder line you dislike, if not that?

If the NSM shoulders were actual pagoda shoulders, that would be one thing--but they aren't. Rather, they seem to be natural, egg-shaped shoulders that trumpet outward a couple inches from the sleevehead. I am no tailoring expert myself, but it looks as if the armhole is too wide or too tall or both. Hence, the shoulder line winds up "bumpy." In contrast, the shoulder line of a pagoda shoulder would follow a single concave curve, from neck to sleevehead.

It's inelegant and looks like a mistake. The actual cause? I can only guess.
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Mina's default, from my experience, is something a bit leaner and shorter than what I and some other members here would prefer, but she accommodates and is flexible within reason. I actually appreciate her push back on things, but she's taken things back and adjusted them for me to the way I like them. I think it's a nice balance of providing a service, but also being accommodating to clients' preferences.

Well, every tailor has a default approach to cut, and there is always pushing back and forth to vary from it. It just seems to me that you are more assured of good results the less you ask them to vary.
post #2492 of 4189
Matt, assuming what I understand you to be saying is correct, then there seems to be two separate claims. One is that you think there's some "trumpeting" as you move towards the armhole. The other is that the shoulder line is a bit bumpy.

I can see and agree with the second. I really have no idea what causes it since I'm not a tailor. And I agree it would be better if it were a smoother, straighter line, but the matter is rather small. I've been planning to bring up the issue with Dino when I see him next time in San Francisco, but on the list of things that could go wrong on a garment, I think in real life - outside of internet robo poses - this is barely noticeable. But I agree, it could be better.

The first issue, I admit, I don't see at all. If I'm understanding your description correctly, I actually associate this detail more with Rubinacci, possibly because - if I remember correctly - it was described exactly as such in their vanity book ("trumpeting"). I actually like it and think of it as a bit more old school, but it's not something I've ever seen on NSM.

I don't think the trumpeting you're talking about is related to the shoulder line, but I'm in no position to say since I have no technical training.
post #2493 of 4189

If that shoulder twist is not expected it just means the shoulders don't fit. Happens to me when the coat's shoulders aren't cut for my forward thrust clavicle. However, in Vox's jackets that shoulder shape might be intentional...

post #2494 of 4189
Actually, I just remembered: Rubinacci described - or rather Nick Foulkes described - their sleeveheads as trumpeting, not the body of the jacket itself. I'm still somewhat confused on what Matt means by that, but if he means what I think he means, I still think the Rubi jackets pictured above are more illustrative of this effect than anything I've seen from NSM.
post #2495 of 4189
Originally Posted by Manton View Post

Who could not be frustrated with the process??

But I am happy with the end product, I have 8 and I love them all. The DB was a little funky at first but he fixed it. As for the others, the trouble I have had were short left sleeves (always the left and only on some coats) but all of those have also been rectified.

Is it short on the left or do you have a dropped right shoulder? I used to wonder why my right sleeve on my coats seemed longer, until one day, a new tailor (not so new anymore) I used put a little extra wadding in the right shoulder to level them, and the sleeves were perfect. Shortening the sleeves is the simpler option, and probably the best if one doesn't want too much wadding in the shoulders.
Edited by bboysdontcryy - 3/5/13 at 1:11am
post #2496 of 4189

Trumpeting at its best.
(Btw, I'm fond of this detail)
post #2497 of 4189
On me, the shoulder line follows the contour of my trapezius from the neck to the acromium. The shoulder line is horizontal from the acromium to the sleeve. I think the wadding from the extended sleevehead contributes to the horizontal line that you are seeing a the end of the shoulder. I find that this effect is less pronounced with heavier fabrics and more conspicuous with lighter fabrics.
post #2498 of 4189
That's why lighter fabrics, from what I've observed, seem to be a (pardon my language) bitch to work with (relative to heavier stuff). Tailor would probably need to be more skilled or, at least extremely experienced with such lightweight fabrics so he'll know how they'll 'behave'. Heavier fabrics would probably drape right over uneven shoulders, bumps and all, which is why, I think, it's harder to get an overcoat wrong than it is a suit.
post #2499 of 4189
There is also the sleeve allowance that is pressed and tacked to the shoulder line that contributes to the unevenness.
post #2500 of 4189
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Yes, I know, many tailors claim they can do whatever suits your taste. But I don't believe them.

Mina and Dino absolutely do not claim to do this. But as others have noted, if you want a jacket a little longer than what they usually do, or less tight, or with less waterfall effect on the shoulders, that they can definitely do. With the tightness and length and things like that, if it's your first jacket, usually Mina will tell you that she'll make up a jacket how she normally would for you, and then at the first fitting you can tell her if you like it or if you'd like it longer, looser, lower buttoning point, whatever.
post #2501 of 4189
On the shoulder thing, since there's not very much structure inside the jacket, how it looks on you is going to depend on your shoulder shape and how you're standing at the time. Sometimes I think it looks awkward, sometimes I think it looks better than the smoother shoulder lines such as on the Rubi jackets above. When it works well, it's a stronger and more dynamic shoulder line that looks less "sack-like" than your typical unstructured jacket. Here's what I would think of as "good examples" (apologies like always for the pictures of me, for those of you who hate it when I post a picture of myself to illustrate a point):

It is definitely a distinctive feature.
post #2502 of 4189
My "strategy" for Solito is very simple. If he comes back, I will get more stuff. If I go back to Naples, I will get more stuff. If not, I won't. Either way, I will enjoy what I have.

I have no pressing need for more stuff anyway. I can use the English for 3 piece (probably getting my last one of these for a long time right now), overcoats (I could perhaps use one more), A&S style DBs (can think of maybe two more that interest me), and tweeds (I want a Russell plaid). I have several worsteds that I would really like Solito to do and if I ever get really itchy for them, I will just send the cloth ahead and make the trek to Naples myself. Not at that point yet.
post #2503 of 4189
That white DB looks a little "blockish" to me. Definitely too short, something I rarely say.
post #2504 of 4189
I feel like a lot of Mina's stuff looks a bit too "columnar".
post #2505 of 4189
Also, I don't know if Lucca has naturally square shoulders or if that is padding (referring to the blue coat), but I much prefer Mariano's shoulder line.

As it happens, I am wearing my (one) NSM today. Pants are pretty close to perfect. Coat is wearable but could be improved. I still think it is too tight and pulls at the waist button. The collar is a bit low on the shirt. The gorge is crazy high. And, most important, the jacket gives me that funny feeling that it is trying to crawl up my back and get away.
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