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my visit to Napoli & Mina @ Napoli Su Misura - Page 153

post #2281 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

No, is that a 130's cloth?

The original Mille Miglia cloth from H&S around 1981 was a super 80's 10/11 ounce and one of the best cloths to work with.

Will expand later on other ranges I like.

140's. swatches that i have feel similar to scabal eton.
post #2282 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post


Will expand later on other ranges I like.

 

Please do, will be much appreciated. My tailor carries a vast selection of H&S and I'm looking to commission some stuff for next fall and maybe this summer.

post #2283 of 3928
Not easy to respond about H&S. What works with them is the diversity of ranges as much as their quality but what is most important when using cloth is the application of what weight/weave is best for the individual. What is a superior cloth in one application could miss the mark for another. I seldom use any cloth under 8 ounces and seldom use plain/panama weaves. Not much demand. I like cloth with a good body to weight ratio and regardless of weight it needs body.

Much of the cloth that is hyped on SF is not favored with my clientele. I rarely use fresco and when I do most prefer the finish of Smith's Finmeresco to the Minis cloth. I hear a lot of you refer to "dry" cloth and this term applied to cloth has always been a negative term with tailors but it is sought out here.
You also need to be aware that H&S uses the same bunch name for different seasons/weights of cloth. You sometimes find a light weight and heavier weight by the same bunch name. I usually prefer the heavier and rarely use the lighter. This doesn't reflect poorly of the quality just the preference of clients.

What I would label as basic, durable cloth is Cape Horn, Snowy River and Perennial. Three different cloths but they all tailor very well. Cape Horn sheds wrinkles and has good body but a soft hand.

For odd jackets Crystal Springs and Euphoria for light weight and SherryKash, Peacock, Eclipse and Sherry Tweed are excellent. A few years ago they had a great wool, linen and silk hopsack that really mede up well Fantastic color range. All bunches contain a mix of classic patterns and some modern interpretations. One client described their sport coat cloth as "Utilitarian but not pedestrian." Meaning the colors and patterns are conventional enough, easy to wear and accessorize but you won't see the same colors and patterns wherever you go.

The Super's are what my base clients use and they tend to repeat orders from the same books. Escorial. Always impressed how the cloth handles. 8.5 ounces is the lightest I've used. 10-11 ounce is the sweet spot. Cloudy Bay 150's, 10-11 ounce, this cloth was beautiful to work with. Swan Hill 160's about 8-9 ounce. Emperor 180's, 8 ounce has incredible body and resilience. Victory 140's Suitings book and the flannel version, 10-11 ounce are one of my all time favorite cloths.
None of these Super's lack body and tailor exceptionally well.

Client gained weight and had to let out several Emperor 180's suits. The suits were a couple years old, still had a good crease. All the old stitch marks and creases came out and you couldn't tell the garments had been adjusted. That says a lot to me about the quality. Have had the same experience with the others in this list and that's why I use them.

The 11 ounce cotton is a favorite but limited in color range. The cotton hopsack wears like iron.

A few staple cloths that are no longer available is the doeskin in the Dakota range. 10 - 11 ounce. Made hundreds of trousers from this cloth. Beautiful colors and finish.
Vendon, 11 ounce hopsack. Had the most favorable response of any cloth I've used. Several clients ordered something in every color and did multiples in favorite colors. Used this for suits, sport coats and trousers. Clients would randomly comment how much they loved the cloth.

Client feed back is just as important about what cloth I use and Holland & Sherry gets singled out more than other cloths. I don't use all of their books but they have something in every range I like to use.
post #2284 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

Not easy to respond about H&S. What works with them is the diversity of ranges as much as their quality but what is most important when using cloth is the application of what weight/weave is best for the individual. What is a superior cloth in one application could miss the mark for another. I seldom use any cloth under 8 ounces and seldom use plain/panama weaves. Not much demand. I like cloth with a good body to weight ratio and regardless of weight it needs body.

Much of the cloth that is hyped on SF is not favored with my clientele. I rarely use fresco and when I do most prefer the finish of Smith's Finmeresco to the Minis cloth. I hear a lot of you refer to "dry" cloth and this term applied to cloth has always been a negative term with tailors but it is sought out here.
You also need to be aware that H&S uses the same bunch name for different seasons/weights of cloth. You sometimes find a light weight and heavier weight by the same bunch name. I usually prefer the heavier and rarely use the lighter. This doesn't reflect poorly of the quality just the preference of clients.

What I would label as basic, durable cloth is Cape Horn, Snowy River and Perennial. Three different cloths but they all tailor very well. Cape Horn sheds wrinkles and has good body but a soft hand.

For odd jackets Crystal Springs and Euphoria for light weight and SherryKash, Peacock, Eclipse and Sherry Tweed are excellent. A few years ago they had a great wool, linen and silk hopsack that really mede up well Fantastic color range. All bunches contain a mix of classic patterns and some modern interpretations. One client described their sport coat cloth as "Utilitarian but not pedestrian." Meaning the colors and patterns are conventional enough, easy to wear and accessorize but you won't see the same colors and patterns wherever you go.

The Super's are what my base clients use and they tend to repeat orders from the same books. Escorial. Always impressed how the cloth handles. 8.5 ounces is the lightest I've used. 10-11 ounce is the sweet spot. Cloudy Bay 150's, 10-11 ounce, this cloth was beautiful to work with. Swan Hill 160's about 8-9 ounce. Emperor 180's, 8 ounce has incredible body and resilience. Victory 140's Suitings book and the flannel version, 10-11 ounce are one of my all time favorite cloths.
None of these Super's lack body and tailor exceptionally well.

Client gained weight and had to let out several Emperor 180's suits. The suits were a couple years old, still had a good crease. All the old stitch marks and creases came out and you couldn't tell the garments had been adjusted. That says a lot to me about the quality. Have had the same experience with the others in this list and that's why I use them.

The 11 ounce cotton is a favorite but limited in color range. The cotton hopsack wears like iron.

A few staple cloths that are no longer available is the doeskin in the Dakota range. 10 - 11 ounce. Made hundreds of trousers from this cloth. Beautiful colors and finish.
Vendon, 11 ounce hopsack. Had the most favorable response of any cloth I've used. Several clients ordered something in every color and did multiples in favorite colors. Used this for suits, sport coats and trousers. Clients would randomly comment how much they loved the cloth.

Client feed back is just as important about what cloth I use and Holland & Sherry gets singled out more than other cloths. I don't use all of their books but they have something in every range I like to use.

Thanks Chris. Exhaustive, and insightful.

You mentioned that 'I hear a lot of you refer to "dry" cloth and this term applied to cloth has always been a negative term with tailors but it is sought out here.'

Are we using the term 'dry' when referring to the finish wrongly? If not, why is it a negative term with tailors?
post #2285 of 3928
Would label cloth as "dry hand" when it feels flat and lifeless, almost a cold feeling. Usually doesn't respond well to iron work or retain shape.

Received an email from a client who is wearing Emperor 180's and wants another. Says the feel of the cloth is amazing.

Not everyones's cup of tea but is very high quality for that type of cloth.
post #2286 of 3928

Epic post, Despos. Thanks a lot for the useful information.

post #2287 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDiaz View Post

Epic post, Despos. Thanks a lot for the useful information.

+2
post #2288 of 3928
Thank you and apologies to Mina/NSM for polluting the thread
post #2289 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

Thank you and apologies to Mina/NSM for polluting the thread

I think it is fine because NSM carries H&S and SG cross posted your response on the Unfunded Liabilities thread. I might consider getting an NSM suit in the Escorial, what is your favorite in the bunch? Seems light at 9 oz.
post #2290 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

.

What I would label as basic, durable cloth is Cape Horn, Snowy River and Perennial. Three different cloths but they all tailor very well. Cape Horn sheds wrinkles and has good body but a soft hand.
Completely un-related but the Snowy River is only a couple of hours away from here and I spend a lot of time up in the snowy mountains around there fly fishing. I'll be there this weekend actually. There is some good merino wool around there. Though some of H&S info is a little out of date. -

http://www.hollandandsherry.com/apparel/collections.aspx?season=SS2011&details=HS1134

The lake (Lake Jindabyne) has not been referred to as blue lake in my lifetime and the lower river itself is actually renowned for being one of the most neglected in the region after lake jindabyne was built in the 50's and it was dammed. Only now are they starting to give it a flush once a year and introduce a better environmental flow. Anyway, theres a bit of Aussie wool/river history for you. Back to the fabrics.
post #2291 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Not easy to respond about H&S. What works with them is the diversity of ranges as much as their quality but what is most important when using cloth is the application of what weight/weave is best for the individual. What is a superior cloth in one application could miss the mark for another. I seldom use any cloth under 8 ounces and seldom use plain/panama weaves. Not much demand. I like cloth with a good body to weight ratio and regardless of weight it needs body.

Much of the cloth that is hyped on SF is not favored with my clientele. I rarely use fresco and when I do most prefer the finish of Smith's Finmeresco to the Minis cloth. I hear a lot of you refer to "dry" cloth and this term applied to cloth has always been a negative term with tailors but it is sought out here.
You also need to be aware that H&S uses the same bunch name for different seasons/weights of cloth. You sometimes find a light weight and heavier weight by the same bunch name. I usually prefer the heavier and rarely use the lighter. This doesn't reflect poorly of the quality just the preference of clients.

What I would label as basic, durable cloth is Cape Horn, Snowy River and Perennial. Three different cloths but they all tailor very well. Cape Horn sheds wrinkles and has good body but a soft hand.

For odd jackets Crystal Springs and Euphoria for light weight and SherryKash, Peacock, Eclipse and Sherry Tweed are excellent. A few years ago they had a great wool, linen and silk hopsack that really mede up well Fantastic color range. All bunches contain a mix of classic patterns and some modern interpretations. One client described their sport coat cloth as "Utilitarian but not pedestrian." Meaning the colors and patterns are conventional enough, easy to wear and accessorize but you won't see the same colors and patterns wherever you go.

The Super's are what my base clients use and they tend to repeat orders from the same books. Escorial. Always impressed how the cloth handles. 8.5 ounces is the lightest I've used. 10-11 ounce is the sweet spot. Cloudy Bay 150's, 10-11 ounce, this cloth was beautiful to work with. Swan Hill 160's about 8-9 ounce. Emperor 180's, 8 ounce has incredible body and resilience. Victory 140's Suitings book and the flannel version, 10-11 ounce are one of my all time favorite cloths.
None of these Super's lack body and tailor exceptionally well.

Client gained weight and had to let out several Emperor 180's suits. The suits were a couple years old, still had a good crease. All the old stitch marks and creases came out and you couldn't tell the garments had been adjusted. That says a lot to me about the quality. Have had the same experience with the others in this list and that's why I use them.

The 11 ounce cotton is a favorite but limited in color range. The cotton hopsack wears like iron.

A few staple cloths that are no longer available is the doeskin in the Dakota range. 10 - 11 ounce. Made hundreds of trousers from this cloth. Beautiful colors and finish.
Vendon, 11 ounce hopsack. Had the most favorable response of any cloth I've used. Several clients ordered something in every color and did multiples in favorite colors. Used this for suits, sport coats and trousers. Clients would randomly comment how much they loved the cloth.

Client feed back is just as important about what cloth I use and Holland & Sherry gets singled out more than other cloths. I don't use all of their books but they have something in every range I like to use.

Interesting reading. Would be very interested to read a debate between you and the tailors who post on London Lounge (and Manton). It seems like you and they use the exact same vocabulary to talk about cloth but reach diametrically opposite, irreconcilable conclusions. Wonder what the reason is.
post #2292 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

Interesting reading. Would be very interested to read a debate between you and the tailors who post on London Lounge (and Manton). It seems like you and they use the exact same vocabulary to talk about cloth but reach diametrically opposite, irreconcilable conclusions. Wonder what the reason is.

Huh? The LL and Manton like the sort of cloths that have no popular appeal -- the merchants who have those cloths at their core are all either dead, dying, or were bought out. This does not mean their cloths are not admirable -- just uncompetitive in today's market.
post #2293 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post

Not easy to respond about H&S. What works with them is the diversity of ranges as much as their quality but what is most important when using cloth is the application of what weight/weave is best for the individual. What is a superior cloth in one application could miss the mark for another. I seldom use any cloth under 8 ounces and seldom use plain/panama weaves. Not much demand. I like cloth with a good body to weight ratio and regardless of weight it needs body.

Much of the cloth that is hyped on SF is not favored with my clientele. I rarely use fresco and when I do most prefer the finish of Smith's Finmeresco to the Minis cloth. I hear a lot of you refer to "dry" cloth and this term applied to cloth has always been a negative term with tailors but it is sought out here.
You also need to be aware that H&S uses the same bunch name for different seasons/weights of cloth. You sometimes find a light weight and heavier weight by the same bunch name. I usually prefer the heavier and rarely use the lighter. This doesn't reflect poorly of the quality just the preference of clients.

What I would label as basic, durable cloth is Cape Horn, Snowy River and Perennial. Three different cloths but they all tailor very well. Cape Horn sheds wrinkles and has good body but a soft hand.

For odd jackets Crystal Springs and Euphoria for light weight and SherryKash, Peacock, Eclipse and Sherry Tweed are excellent. A few years ago they had a great wool, linen and silk hopsack that really mede up well Fantastic color range. All bunches contain a mix of classic patterns and some modern interpretations. One client described their sport coat cloth as "Utilitarian but not pedestrian." Meaning the colors and patterns are conventional enough, easy to wear and accessorize but you won't see the same colors and patterns wherever you go.

The Super's are what my base clients use and they tend to repeat orders from the same books. Escorial. Always impressed how the cloth handles. 8.5 ounces is the lightest I've used. 10-11 ounce is the sweet spot. Cloudy Bay 150's, 10-11 ounce, this cloth was beautiful to work with. Swan Hill 160's about 8-9 ounce. Emperor 180's, 8 ounce has incredible body and resilience. Victory 140's Suitings book and the flannel version, 10-11 ounce are one of my all time favorite cloths.
None of these Super's lack body and tailor exceptionally well.

Client gained weight and had to let out several Emperor 180's suits. The suits were a couple years old, still had a good crease. All the old stitch marks and creases came out and you couldn't tell the garments had been adjusted. That says a lot to me about the quality. Have had the same experience with the others in this list and that's why I use them.

The 11 ounce cotton is a favorite but limited in color range. The cotton hopsack wears like iron.

A few staple cloths that are no longer available is the doeskin in the Dakota range. 10 - 11 ounce. Made hundreds of trousers from this cloth. Beautiful colors and finish.
Vendon, 11 ounce hopsack. Had the most favorable response of any cloth I've used. Several clients ordered something in every color and did multiples in favorite colors. Used this for suits, sport coats and trousers. Clients would randomly comment how much they loved the cloth.

Client feed back is just as important about what cloth I use and Holland & Sherry gets singled out more than other cloths. I don't use all of their books but they have something in every range I like to use.

post #2294 of 3928
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

Interesting reading. Would be very interested to read a debate between you and the tailors who post on London Lounge (and Manton). It seems like you and they use the exact same vocabulary to talk about cloth but reach diametrically opposite, irreconcilable conclusions. Wonder what the reason is.

Mostly it's one tailor, who used to do work for Manton, which is where he got it. I've chatted with that tailor about the reasons behind his preference in cloth and one could call his methods slightly unconventional.

I'm with Despos on this one, FWIW.
post #2295 of 3928
"dry hand" to me basically means "not shiney." I really, really hate shiney cloth, except mohair, and even then I prefer the drier mohairs to the truly shiny ones.

Some may disagree but to me basically all of Lesser's worsteds (wearing one today) have a dry hand.
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