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The Berluti shoe thread - Page 4

post #46 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by iammatt
Not to re-beat a drum that I beat just before the crash, but I think that Berluti RTW shoes are absolute, unfiltered garbage.


--- I just want to be clear on your viewpoint, So let me get this straight, what you are saying is...
post #47 of 357
Quote:
Not to re-beat a drum that I beat just before the crash, but I think that Berluti RTW shoes are absolute, unfiltered garbage.
I am very surprised that someone like Matt would make such a strong attack without pointing to specifics. I think a better comment would have included specifics on the shoes construction or stye. There seems to a lack of tolerance for other's opinions. I think the community has be respectful of differing viewpoints. Some may have more experience with the brand and be in a better position to comment.
post #48 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artisan Fan
I am very surprised that someone like Matt would make such a strong attack without pointing to specifics. I think a better comment would have included specifics on the shoes construction or stye.

There seems to a lack of tolerance for other's opinions. I think the community has be respectful of differing viewpoints. Some may have more experience with the brand and be in a better position to comment.
Dude. If there is a lack of tolerance for somebody else's opinion, it is coming from you.

Just because somebody thinks that shoes that you seem to hold so dear to your heart are trash for what the brand charges doesn't mean they are making a "personal attack" on you, as you have put it, or mean that they are not being respectful of your opinion.

I also have been completely underwhelmed by Berluti. They remind me a lot of my Moreschi in terms of construction quality. This says nothing about you personally, or your opinion. It means, quite simply, that I completely disagree with your perception of Berluti quality. No more, no less.
post #49 of 357
Rolo:

Berluti is a proper name. I have no idea if it means something plural or not in Italian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artisan Fan
RJ,

I'm disappointed you would resort to personal attacks on my shoe and me in general in this thread. I think that's rude of you honestly. You don't need to mention my shoes to make a point. It's obvious that thinner leather shoes wrinkles but so do my Lobbs, EG, and Amesbury bespoke.
Okay, so my little Bokassa comment was, as the Bresch would say, "churlish". However, Bokassa did gainfully employ the best of French artisanry: Arthus-Bertrand made the crown jewels for his coronation as emperor of the Central African Republic. I did not mention your shoes in order to insult you, however. I simply wished to give my thoughts about Berluti creasing with respect to an example we both were familiar. You posted pictures of your shoes, and that was one observation. As I wrote elsewhere, Berluti only makes shoes in one width per style, which has led to some of the bad creasing on shoes seen on some Japanese sites.

Quote:
My Berlutis have held up as well as any shoes I own. I think the Venezia leather is used in part for how it takes the polishing and patina. I would probably not recommend very heavy use for Berlutis but I think of them as special occasion and style shoes so they work fine there.
Those are your empirical observations and I respect them. I for one am glad that your Berlutis have shown themselves to be durable. I agree that Berlutis excel as special occasion shoes. Horses for courses, after all.

Quote:
It's also clear that you have a very strongly negative opinion about Berluti.
Do I? I tried hard to give the facts of what I know and my own positive experiences with my own Berlutis. I wanted to present as much as I have learned about Berluti and pointed out what I did not learn firsthand.
Quote:
I don't think your post is fair to the value of Berluti.
This makes no sense.
Quote:
I think the Chinese manufacturing comments is factually wrong and seems to be frankly a slander (with no evidence I might add) wholly unjustified. I think a gentlemen would present strong evidence for such a strong accusation.
I am not asserting Berlutis are made in China. I hope they are not. I qualified the assertion that they may be made in China as "rumor". However, if the rumor is true, I would find it food for thought. I have no evidence and I stated as much, even mentioning that someone else recently told me he saw the Italian factory and does not believe any manufacture takes place in China. I simply wish to present the extent of what I know.

Quote:
You quote Barneys as saying Berluti is making some of the best handmade shoes. If you had actually seen Olga's bespoke work, you would admit there is a case to be made here.
You are clouding the issue. Barneys is not selling Berluti bespoke shoes. When its website announced that Barneys had begun to sell Berlutis, the best handmade shoes, the inference is that the Berlutis being sold at Barneys are handmade shoes of such quality. Barneys only sells Berluti RTW. Ergo...

Quote:
I think the concern about LVMH is legitimate but Olga is such a perfectionist she may be able to keep quality maintained and designs innovative.
Well, this is certainly the image Berluti has attempted to project: "the only lady shoemaker in the world", the website calls her, on a quest to ennoble the feet of men. I rather like Berluti. I always go out of my way to walk by their window on BSG. I wish their PR wouldn't be quite so deliberately obfuscatory, though. Olga's not the only woman shoemaker in the world. I don't know if she's made a pair of shoes in years, although I am sure she contributes design ideas. Following Arnault's takeover, he appears to have saved the brand by aggressively expanding and promoting it. As I wrote above, Berluti's goal is widespread expansion. I hope quality does not suffer. There have already been certain sacrifices such as the custom patination service in any color, which does not appear to be available from Barneys or via Berluti's damnable website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artisan Fan
Excuse me but it was RJ who made it personal here... I did not attack RJ as well as my replies clearly show. I did call him on a rude comment and I will continue to do so as I see fit. RJ is making several baseless claims here and he needs to present more evidence to back up his accusations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artisan Fan
Maybe this is RJman's issue. He bought a pair of Berulti by mistake which had a Made in China label on them, thinking he got the real Berlutis. He's been down on the brand every since...
I don't care what gibes you attempt to make about me, but honestly, does the above not strike you as slightly hypocritical? I made a stupid zinger; if you find it so unbecoming and ungentlemanly, why try to insult me?

In short: I rather like Berluti; I almost went with them for bespoke; I hope the China rumors are not true; my own Berlutis are holding up well; I do feel the shoes are somewhat overpriced and that the Berluti PR is clouding reality.

Matt, please say more about why you feel the way you do about Berluti. I'd like to know, and it looks like AF deserves an explanation.
post #50 of 357
I have had nothing but problems from any of the StefanoBi made shoes that I have owned. They have started out ok, but they do not mold to your foot and they start looking shabby pretty quickly. As for Berluti, I find their styles to start at the edges of bad taste and get worse from there. The first pair that I had wore out in about a year of light usage. The sole channeling is cheaply done and comes up after a short while. The leather is extremely delicate and most dings and smudges do not come off. It is not a leather that gets better looking with age. Overall, I was more than disappointed. StefanoBi shoes are a rip off at the price charged, and Berlutis are the same at a much higher pricepoint. I also hear that the bespoke are very nice, but I have never tried.
post #51 of 357
Quote:
I did not mention your shoes in order to insult you, however. I simply wished to give my thoughts about Berluti creasing with respect to an example we both were familiar.

Fair enough then, no problem.

Quote:
I am not asserting Berlutis are made in China. I hope they are not. I qualified the assertion that they may be made in China as "rumor". However, if the rumor is true, I would find it food for thought.

The problem is that by stating this rumor you are giving it more life and such a thing can badly damage Berluti and unfairly so. I think until there is some concrete evidence, you should not have even brought it up. I seriously doubt that Berluti or StefanoBi would manufacture in China. As pricey as Berluti are, I believe they have a deserved reputation of being ethical and European made.

Quote:
There have already been certain sacrifices such as the custom patination service in any color, which does not appear to be available from Barneys or via Berluti's damnable website.

The London and Milan stores did some antiquing for my friends for free. They will do more for money but that's just an indication of normal good service there. Barney's isn't a full Berluti operation by any means so I'm not surprised they don't offer the service.

Quote:
As for Berluti, I find their styles to start at the edges of bad taste and get worse from there.

Olga has designed some monsters for sure, but she has also designed some beautiful shoes. The Warhol loafers and several of the Olga III styles are sublime. I'm not sure why your experience in durability has been so different from mine.
post #52 of 357
Well done, AF. Best to deal with the substantive issues less the histrionics.
post #53 of 357
somebody set up us the bomb?
post #54 of 357
??? What???
post #55 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by zjpj83
Dude. If there is a lack of tolerance for somebody else's opinion, it is coming from you. Just because somebody thinks that shoes that you seem to hold so dear to your heart are trash for what the brand charges doesn't mean they are making a "personal attack" on you, as you have put it, or mean that they are not being respectful of your opinion. I also have been completely underwhelmed by Berluti. They remind me a lot of my Moreschi in terms of construction quality. This says nothing about you personally, or your opinion. It means, quite simply, that I completely disagree with your perception of Berluti quality. No more, no less.
How are Moreschi shoes? I tried a pair on before this forum and I found them quite nice, but pricewise pretty expensive in Hong Kong. Having never heard of them before I didn't really think twice about them. Might have to go take another look!
post #56 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soph
--- I just want to be clear on your viewpoint, So let me get this straight, what you are saying is...
I figured that this time around I would not mention that their shoes are for pimps and those aspiring to be. Seriously, some are OK looking, but they all fall outside of what I would consider my own personal style. I am not a fan of wholecuts in general. I am sure that people get a lot of good wear from them.
post #57 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by iammatt
I figured that this time around I would not mention that their shoes are for pimps and those aspiring to be.

the pimp i patronize do not wear berluti.
post #58 of 357
Jesus, do we really need to have tempers flair over shoes?
post #59 of 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by whnay.
Jesus, do we really need to have tempers flair over shoes?

You must be new here.

Regarding Berluti, I think I could take 100 people to the Berluti shop window, and 50 would love them and 50 would hate them. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground given their styling. Some people love the style and the patina, while some just can't stand it. You can put me in the latter category, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand why someone else would like them. Just not for me.

As for quality versus price, I think RJ's post was very informative. Given what Berluti charges for its RTW, it seems like you could do better from a quality perspective.
post #60 of 357
Quote:
Given what Berluti charges for its RTW, it seems like you could do better from a quality perspective.
Perhaps you would feel differently if you owned a pair.
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