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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 356

post #5326 of 27206
lolcopters spotted hovering over Orlando tonight
post #5327 of 27206
Not to belabor this point, but from Hollinger (wind bag, I know):
Quote:
What about Love?
As I noted above, one of the two reasons to do an extension is to lock in a superstar for as long as possible. Max contracts for superstars are the best contracts in basketball; as Henry Abbott has already noted, LeBron's value is probably about $50 million a year, so getting away with paying him $15 million puts his team at a massive advantage. With players of this caliber, the biggest threat isn't overpaying them; it's that they'll leave as unrestricted free agents, when everybody in the league is trying to pay them and the rules limit the amount.

There's no question: Love is a superstar. He was fifth in the league in PER a year ago and is sixth this season. He's the league's best rebounder, hands down, and shoots 40 percent on 3s. He scores 25.5 points per 40 minutes, which is a lot for a player who allegedly can't create his own shot; in fact, it's nearly what Dirk Nowitzki did a year ago. He's 23; he has improved every year; and he's the centerpiece of a rebuilding team.

I have no idea why you wouldn't want to keep such a player for as long as possible. In fact, that should be the primary objective when extending a max contract to a player in his early 20s. The Chicago Bulls and Oklahoma City Thunder did that exact thing by signing Rose and Westbrook to five-year deals for the max.

The Minnesota Timberwolves? They were reading from the wrong playbook. Not only didn't they give Love five years but the four-year deal they agreed to allows him to opt out after three. This is exactly what happened with LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh, and similar to what happened with Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony and Dwight Howard. You'll note that only Wade is still with the team that signed him to the extension, and that only happened after coordinating with James and Bosh.

Because of that, I had figured no sane team would ever offer a superstar player an early opt-out, especially one in a smallish market renowned for frigid winters.

And for what? So they can keep a "designated player" option around for Ricky Rubio? We don't even know whether Rubio is a max-caliber player, let alone one worthy of signing to a five-year deal three years from now. And if Love is already gone by then, what's the point?

Rather than beginning to cement the core of one of the most improved teams in basketball, Minnesota started the clock ticking on its best player's departure. Love's family is from Southern California, and the Lakers won't have any contracts in three years; you do the math. Yes, Love could extend the deal before then, but he'd be able to extend it by only two seasons in 2014; he might decide it's better off to force a trade and re-sign (or extend) in his new digs.

At best, the Wolves have created some needless drama for the next two seasons in return for a dubious advantage of paying Love for three years instead of for five. On a day when nearly every other decision made perfect sense, this one still has me scratching my head in bewilderment.
post #5328 of 27206
what's worse/more stupid is that love himself asked for 5 years and the wolves said no. mind boggling. just because he's not dirk and doesn't excel at creating his own shot doesnt mean that he's not a player worthy of building a franchise around. elite 3 point shooter and 2nd best rebounder and that's still not enough? not to mention dude almost maintains a steal and a block per game, can shoot game clinching shots, all around fantastic defender, 6' 10, extremely efficient, no off court drama what more can you really ask for?

what amazed me last year was that he won the most improved player award when all that changed was that he got the minutes we knew he deserved 3 years ago


also lebron is a talented player and imo the only reason he hasnt won rings is because he didnt have the caliber of teams and coaches that MJ and kobe was blessed with
post #5329 of 27206
so you're making the point that 3 all-stars does not make a champion team?

so far true
post #5330 of 27206
this is their second year as a team. in their first year they went to the finals without having practiced and prepared properly during the summer. they are currently second in the east without one of their star players playing


what i was referring to was the cavs with LBJ where the offensive strategy was screen, give ball to lbj, stand around and look at him as he tries to score. defense was admittedly awesome. but really the caliber of teams that MJ had and Kobe had when they won championships is far beyond the caliber of teams that LBJ had

mj didn't win championships for 4 years until phil jackson, scottie pippen, horace grant, et. al. kobe didn't win even having played with shaq for three years until phil jackson came along and the lakers made good decisions signing vets for a strong bench. even kareem didn't win championships for 4 years despite being, well, kareem until magic johnson and pat riley and later james worthy

who did lebron have?
post #5331 of 27206
Yeah the whole Love thing is stupid beyond words. But hey, there is a reason the T-Wolves are what they are. What shocks me is that someone out there made a lot of money to make this shit-brained decision.
post #5332 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal View Post

Yeah the whole Love thing is stupid beyond words. But hey, there is a reason the T-Wolves are what they are. What shocks me is that someone out there made a lot of money to make this shit-brained decision.

its almost like reverse racism... its like they think that white people have more loyalty to the organization a-la steven nash...

still the timberwolves basically have two rookie contracts with two legit players (rubio and williams per 36min stats are looking very very good as 1st year players).

love is "locked down" until 2015 also...

the timberwolves can actually trade for a max player right now.. and use their beasley/brad miller + darko contracts to dangle on teams wanting to dump a max contract.

what if the knicks continue to suck because of lack of cohesiveness between STAT and melo?

why not offer STAT for beasley+brad miller+darko. The wolves will get a legitimate 1st option who'll seamlessly work within that teams offense (plus rubio is Nash 2.0), and the knicks get cap relief (around 12million) with the beasley and miller expiring contracts and a legit 7+foot defender to put beside chandler for a scary huge twin tower front line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

lolcopters spotted hovering over Orlando tonight

danny ainge keeps on stupidly threatening to "break up the team" when all he basically has to do is wait until $50,000,000.00 comes off the books next year. If anything the team should just tank and wait for the loaded draft.

the celtics may suck this year... but they still can play defense... when they want to.
post #5333 of 27206
yes it is reverse racism.

here would be my top 10 in no order order at this point:

1.lebron
2. durant
3. kobe still
4. rose
5. love
6. westbrook
7. howard
8. griffin
9. dwill
10.paul

dirk too old, wade too fragile.

everyone like how the magic rode dwight howard to victory last night? eye rolls
post #5334 of 27206
i'd put kyle lowry instead of westbrook and gallinari or jennings instead of deron williams (far more efficient, much more defensive, but at this point is just me being picky). marc gasol over griffin.

griffin i wouldnt even put in the top 75. westbrook not even in the top 20
post #5335 of 27206
^ur a lil nuts i think
post #5336 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekunk07 View Post

yes it is reverse racism.
here would be my top 10 in no order order at this point:
1.lebron
2. durant
3. kobe still
4. rose
5. love
6. westbrook
7. howard
8. griffin
9. dwill
10.paul
dirk too old, wade too fragile.
everyone like how the magic rode dwight howard to victory last night? eye rolls

Shaq and Kenny had some nice banter earlier about Dwight vs. Bynum. Dwight is way too limited offensively. He has one move, jump hook going right. He's awful when he posts up from the right side, as he doesn't have the touch to bank it in.
post #5337 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekunk07 View Post

^ur a lil nuts i think

take a hard look at the stats and the way they play. you're falling for brand name value
Quote:
Originally Posted by skitlets View Post

Shaq and Kenny had some nice banter earlier about Dwight vs. Bynum. Dwight is way too limited offensively. He has one move, jump hook going right. He's awful when he posts up from the right side, as he doesn't have the touch to bank it in.

what are you talking about he has a variety about spin moves, tear drops, lay ups, short range jump shots. his post game's really improved over the summer. work with olajuwan really shows
post #5338 of 27206
By top 10 do we mean 10 most valuable? If so I would say all but Kobe, Lebron, and Rose are Centers and PFs.
post #5339 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

take a hard look at the stats and the way they play. you're falling for brand name value

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/griffbl01.html

blake's per game/per 36min/and advanced stats shows he's an elite player.

here's his per game stats:

22.3pts/11.9rebounds/3.7assists blocks 0.6/turnovers 2.8/FG% 50.8/freethrow attemps 8.3

his per 36min game stats are pretty much the same. his advanced stats are actually impressive too.

thats for only two seasons. he was an elite player as a rookie and only two years in.

its kind of painful to see him post up taller defenders because he ends up doing some pretty ugly moves. but he actually is only a 3rd year player. plus that wasn't his game in college (which consisted mostly of jump shots and high flying alley op dunks). but with that limited skill set his offensive numbers are impressive.

think about how lame Dwight howard looks on offense, attitude -wise (especially when he gets that huge shit eating grin after doing something dumb or good), but he's still elite.
post #5340 of 27206
his points and rebound averages (20/10) are at an elite level. if you only counted points and rebounds blake griffin is 3rd in the league (http://rater.givemetherock.com/index.php check only points, rebounds and filter)

the reason he's not an elite pf/center is because while his free throw attempts are 6th in the league his free throw percentage is 370th in the league. he's 92nd in blocks. there are 20 odd guys in the league with about double double averages in points and rebounds and all of them have better stats than blake griffin because of that. if he simply had a league average (70 to 75%) and an average of even a block per game then definitely yes he would be an elite center, maybe even top 10 player

subjectively he's a great shooter, great post game, brings great energy to the team and audience (esp when he dunks) but defensively he really doesn't do a lot. he doesn't close out as much as he should, he doesn't put his hand in his opponent's face as much as he should, and he's not perceptive enough about spacing and potential moves and it shows in his stats.

dude is definitely entertaining to watch (lob city is always fun) and he has great raw talent but as he is now i wouldn't put him in the top 20 power fowards much less top 10 players.


one thing this article (http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/basketball/fba/story?page=hardcorenba120126) i read recently makes clear is that while his rebounds and points are high, players with high rebounds and points are not scarce, while players with blocks are. dwight offsets his low (albeit heigher than blake) ftp with his league leading rebounds, blocks, and fgp making him at the very least a top 40 player



i dunno maybe it's a mental game cuz i know the dude works hard. even shaq said in practice he averaged about 80%. i do agree with you. i think griffin is going to be a legend




also it makes me sad seeing less than half of timberwolves games filled up. minnesota does not deserve the team they have
Edited by indesertum - 1/27/12 at 5:13pm
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