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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 293

post #4381 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post
When the fuck did I say that????

ARGHHHHHHH!!!!! This forum is filled with fucking morons!

All I said, was that his athleticism is off the charts (as confirmed by every scout who has ever seen him play) and that I was excited to see him develop.

Michael Olowokandi? Kwame Brown? When the hell did I bring them up?
Yeah, "fucking morons".... Jeezus. Why do you post here then?

You implied that the guy's "off the chart" and "mind-blowing" athleticism are somehow legitimized by the fact that he was chosen #6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post
Do you really think a team would pick a guy as raw as him 6th overall if he was as athletic as Gordon Hayward.
To which: 1) he's not that impressive to me and 2) there are busts even at #1...a #6 Euro-leaguer is no slam-dunk. But really the guy is just not Blake Griffin athletic, not even close. I don't think he's even Derrick Williams athletic.
post #4382 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by venessian View Post
Yeah, "fucking morons".... Jeezus. Why do you post here then?

You implied that the guy's "off the chart" and "mind-blowing" athleticism are somehow legitimized by the fact that he was chosen #6.


To which: 1) he's not that impressive to me and 2) there are busts even at #1...a #6 Euro-leaguer is no slam-dunk. But really the guy is just not Blake Griffin athletic, not even close. I don't think he's even Derrick Williams athletic.

No one ever said he was as athletic as Griffin or Williams anywhere. You're just making that up for God knows what reason.

All your other arguments make no sense whatsoever and don;t take into account anything that was said in this thread. Either go back and read it correctly and then comment or just GTFO and quit making a fool of yourself.
post #4383 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post
First off, a TNT analyst is not a scout. Those guys say whatever comes across their mind at any given moment, regardless of if it makes sense or not. Most of the scouting reports I've read on him have compared him to Andrei Kirilenko and Chris Bosh in terms of his frame and athleticism (though way, way, way less polished than Bosh).

I see him as a less skilled AK47/Chris Bosh/Tom Chambers mix who tries to dunk on everyone. I don't think he'll be an All-Star but he has the potential to be a good 3/4 guy.

i for one would be delighted to have a "euro" [white] superstar who dunks like shawn kemp and has game like dirk nowitzky... there's always a strange reverse-prejudice in the nba that caucasian players can't play like kemp [especially USA born and bred caucasians]. i'm kind of sad that china hasn't produced another superstar yet too.
post #4384 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13k View Post
HRoi: you're on to something. You're seeing "athleticism off the charts" cuz 80% of the players he's playing against in the Serbian league are WHITE.
Not entirely true...in one video I saw he absolutely beasted on Flip Murray. Flip Murray!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post
so i'm keeping an open mind. but what comparison would you make, then? all these "scouts that have been watching him play forever" are comparing him with Blake Griffin. FFS, he himself said that Blake is the "American Jan Vesely". which is kind of like comparing a sequoia tree to an overcooked strand of linguini.
He did? Really???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post
They're pros. Put any of the top teams in the Serbian league in a mid-major conference and they'd probably dominate.
Now that's a ringing endorsement if I've ever read one....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post
No one ever said he was as athletic as Griffin or Williams anywhere. You're just making that up for God knows what reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Barrington View Post
Just do a Youtube search for him and prepare to have your mind blown.
OK I get it, I'm a moron, but I'll say this: Blake Griffin blows my mind. Derrick Williams blew my mind in the NCAAs. Jan Vesely does NOT blow my mind. I guess I'm just a moron in that it takes more than a reed-thin 6'-11" guy dunking on some guys in the Euro-league to blow my mind.
post #4385 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post
i for one would be delighted to have a "euro" [white] superstar who dunks like shawn kemp and has game like dirk nowitzky... there's always a strange reverse-prejudice in the nba that caucasian players can't play like kemp [especially USA born and bred caucasians]. i'm kind of sad that china hasn't produced another superstar yet too.

Most white guys can't play like Kemp, but then again most black guys couldn't. That guy was one of the top 5 most athletic players of the last 30 years in the NBA. Seriously.

As far as white players go, I think they often get pigeonholed and compared to other white players, regardless of their skillset. I don't think analysts do it consciously but they still do it.
post #4386 of 27201
actually, your Andrei Kirilenko comparison was pretty good IMO. but Vesely has better shooting ability and AK47 has better shotblocking instincts
post #4387 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post
actually, your Andrei Kirilenko comparison was pretty good IMO. but Vesely has better shooting ability and AK47 has better shotblocking instincts

Kirilenko has been around for awhile so we pretty much know what type of player he is. Vesely is raw as hell and could either develop into a Kirilenko type player or a dunker. Or he couldn't develop at all and become a big bust.
post #4388 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by venessian View Post
You implied that the guy's "off the chart" and "mind-blowing" athleticism are somehow legitimized by the fact that he was chosen #6.

You do realize people are actually paid thousands of dollars to do this scouting stuff professionally right? There is absolutely no reason for a NBA team, with all the resources in the world to pick a guy if they don't see something in him. Sure there have been busts, some of epic proportions, but hind sight is 20/20, at the time of each and every pick, scouts who do this for a living see the possibility for that player to fulfill a certain potential.

With that said, I think Vesely will be middling role player. He's got jumping ability for sure and a skillset of a SF in a 6'11 body... but isn't particularly remarkable in any facet of his game.
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post #4389 of 27201
^lol in this video the guy who tried to contest got as much hops as my grandma
post #4390 of 27201
Had no idea who Vesely was until I watched this "highlight" reel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QZxGrVco3o

Watch at 2:42. This sounds ridiculous, but this one play tells me he will never amount to anything on defense. I've just gotten home from the bar, so I'll have to detail this later, but Vesely, on that play, lunges at the shooter and lands with his back facing the shooter. That's a cop-out move. I do that move now, at age 34, when I play because I know my left ankle will shatter if I land the right way and stay on defense as the guy goes past me. It's shitty defense, to only be used when you're athletically outmatched but don't want everyone to see. The fact that he's doing that at age 20 is, in my opinion, a HUGE red flag.

I'm interested to hear what others who have played basketball think.
post #4391 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post
Had no idea who Vesely was until I watched this "highlight" reel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QZxGrVco3o Watch at 2:42. This sounds ridiculous, but this one play tells me he will never amount to anything on defense. I've just gotten home from the bar, so I'll have to detail this later, but Vesely, on that play, lunges at the shooter and lands with his back facing the shooter. That's a cop-out move. I do that move now, at age 34, when I play because I know my left ankle will shatter if I land the right way and stay on defense as the guy goes past me. It's shitty defense, to only be used when you're athletically outmatched but don't want everyone to see. The fact that he's doing that at age 20 is, in my opinion, a HUGE red flag. I'm interested to hear what others who have played basketball think.
What do I think? I think that stating that an incredibly raw, 6'11 20 year old will never amount to anything because of one play you saw on a Youtube video is pretty ridiculous, that's what I think. This guy will probably need five years to develop. He has "project" written all over him, but his athleticism is exciting. But he's incredibly raw at the moment so I wouldn't overanalyze anything any defensive lapses at the moment.
post #4392 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post
Had no idea who Vesely was until I watched this "highlight" reel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QZxGrVco3o Watch at 2:42. This sounds ridiculous, but this one play tells me he will never amount to anything on defense. I've just gotten home from the bar, so I'll have to detail this later, but Vesely, on that play, lunges at the shooter and lands with his back facing the shooter. That's a cop-out move. I do that move now, at age 34, when I play because I know my left ankle will shatter if I land the right way and stay on defense as the guy goes past me. It's shitty defense, to only be used when you're athletically outmatched but don't want everyone to see. The fact that he's doing that at age 20 is, in my opinion, a HUGE red flag. I'm interested to hear what others who have played basketball think.
i'm basing my comments only on vids i've watched. havent seen him actually play. but that's all we get unless we have a regular Turkish Euroleague watcher chime in i'll give him the fact that he seems to have a pretty good first step. but if he doesnt blow by you with that, then he's absolutely stymied. looks like he has terrible hands (which the commentator points out, and that will kill him in the NBA - how many turnovers does a rook get before he gets pulled?), and no post or pivot game (which makes the Bosh comparison utter crap). gets overpowered on the boards and on D, which i suppose he can fix if he gets stronger. so then...what else is there? he can dunk if he gets by you with that first step or in the open floor. he can block a shot if you dont see him coming. how well does he shoot, percentage wise?
post #4393 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post
What a shitty ass draft. Cannot believe how many Euros were picked over American college stars. Just ridiculous.
Yes. What a waste of draft picks. They'll never do anything with these guys. I still don’'t get the logic in having Ricky Rubio stay in Europe. The guy is a PG FFS. He needs to learn the team's systems and get some chemistry going with teammates. How the fuck is he going to run the TWolves around the court from the Barcelona bench? They need to give these guys a few years together to get somewhere. Even if this happens next season, they’ve still set themselves back a few seasons by not bringing him down earlier.

Jan Vesely will simply be another wasted Euro pick. I'm unimpressed. Biyombo is the one I like the most of the foreign contingent, but he is probably also most likely the one to be a bust.

I didn't realise Isiah Thomas was part of this draft. I was shocked to see his name come up on Bilas’ next best available list late in the 2nd. He's a steal at 60, but I don't know if he can get over the serious lack of height. Others undervalued IMO are Kemba Walker, Marcus Morris, Nolan Smith, JaJuan Johnson, Kyle Singler and Jon Diebler. Undrafted players (I think) like Dallas Lauderdale, Corey Stokes, Justin Burrell, Ben Hansbrough and Scotty Hopson could fill out a roster. College players get no love.
post #4394 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post
Had no idea who Vesely was until I watched this "highlight" reel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QZxGrVco3o

Watch at 2:42. This sounds ridiculous, but this one play tells me he will never amount to anything on defense. I've just gotten home from the bar, so I'll have to detail this later, but Vesely, on that play, lunges at the shooter and lands with his back facing the shooter. That's a cop-out move. I do that move now, at age 34, when I play because I know my left ankle will shatter if I land the right way and stay on defense as the guy goes past me. It's shitty defense, to only be used when you're athletically outmatched but don't want everyone to see. The fact that he's doing that at age 20 is, in my opinion, a HUGE red flag.

I'm interested to hear what others who have played basketball think.

I've only played basketball at a recreational level, so I'm not sure I can relate. By the way, the play you are talking about happens at 3:42, not 2:42. Are you saying the best way to guard that play is to come out at the shooter but not leave your feet? So in case the shooter is merely pump faking, you would still be able to recover and defend a drive? I would probably agree with that

But if you are to leave your feet as a defender, I'm not sure I see why landing with your back to the shooter is necessarily so bad. Care to elaborate? I'm looking at this video of Shane Battier playing defense on Kobe, and he lands with his back to Kobe a number of times. Start watching around 2:09 of this video.

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post #4395 of 27201
I was posting after coming home from the bars, sorry that post didn't make much sense. At all. I guess my objection was that you are now behind the guy and having to chase him which pretty means all you can do is foul. And because your man has beaten you, you could let up on defense if you wanted to. However, it's an easy fix - you're now also in a position to run quickly over and cover someone else's man (the someone who has to come down to guard your man). Honestly, I have no idea what my point was.
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