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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1679

post #25171 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnFacconable View Post

Look whether you want to look at analytics or not they still exist not unlike the laws of physics. You don't have to understand how gravity works for it to have an impact on you.

Perfect example is that Pop just isn't that into analytics but it doesn't matter because he's a basketball genius who intuitively understands the game and he instinctively builds and runs his team in a way that analytics will favor. Other recent champions (Celtics, Heat, Warriors) all relied heavily on analytics to help build and run their teams. If you rely on analytics to the exclusion of everything else of course you won't reach the ultimate level of succes, but which team would you rather have - Houston, Lakers or Knicks? At least analytics can help establish a floor of competitiveness.

I don't really think fantasy sports bears any relation to analytics by the way, they are actually more in conflict than similar. Counting stats are great for fantasy but tell you little about how effective a player is without context. My good friend who is big in analytics (ESPN includes him in their expert panel voting) doesn't play fantasy sports nor do most of the guys he tells me about, although since many work in the league I guess that could be part of it.

Which team I would rather have depends on whether I'm an owner or a fan, to a certain extent. While winning and marketability are related, they're not conterminous.

And "stats vs. analytics" is something of a false dichotomy. Analytics is all about stats. It's just a question of which statistics most effectively convey the information you personally deem important.
post #25172 of 27206
Btw what's gotten into Ray Felton?? Cuban spends a decade trying to get Deron Williams and when he finally does, he's outplayed by (formerly) fat Raymond...lol
post #25173 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

Btw what's gotten into Ray Felton?? Cuban spends a decade trying to get Deron Williams and when he finally does, he's outplayed by (formerly) fat Raymond...lol

1. Felton was never entirely without skilz.
2. Whether you're pursuing a point guard, a girl you had a mad crush on, a car, a cell phone, a limited edition beer, or a racehorse, it's important not to get your ego so invested in the chase that you don't realize that if it finally becomes available after a decade it might be because everyone else has realized it's now ten years older and worn down than it was when it first captured your fancy.
post #25174 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

or draft Kawhi Leonard.

I hate to feed the FCM, but Indy drafted Kawhi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

And "stats vs. analytics" is something of a false dichotomy. Analytics is all about stats. It's just a question of which statistics most effectively convey the information you personally deem important.

There is tons of data so with method and systemic interpretation, as data points grow, you can refine the gap on what is the most efficient offense possible.

While this sounds compelling on the surface, it sucks because everyone will essentially reach the same conclusions and end up playing the same, players will look the same, and the same few shots will be all we see. Boring.

To a GM an coach, efficiency is valuable. A team focused only on analytics will, over the very long term, win more. But to an observer, it isn't exactly a good show. I'm active over on the F1 thread, those cars have become so perfect that they've actually become boring as fuck to watch race. You need an occasional blown engine to keep it entertaining. Basketball will suffer the same fate.

Things will get even worse when they finally wake up and take all this data to make it predictive.
post #25175 of 27206
I don't disagree with your main points, but hold out hope that there will still be room for innovation. We're talking about data that's dynamic, not static. Naturally over time teams will model themselves after what has proved effective. If you're employing model A when most of the league is playing model C, the results you achieve might be be exactly the same when everyone else has moved to A or A.2. Put differently every system or program or combination of players is effective not in some fixed way, but rather will be differently effective depending on what every other team is putting on the floor.

On your F1 point --
The girlfriend and I are going to the Indy 500 this year. Totally random whim trip. We both know fuck-all about racing - I think the last time I watched more than ten minutes of the Indy 500 was the first time Rick Mears won it. But we need to decide who to root for. Any suggestions? Since we're not racing fans, I'm less interested in trying to handicap the likely winner than picking someone who's a likeable oddball, fun to pull for because he's outrageous in non-douchey way, somebody who's a longshot but a classy, hardworking vet who's due, or whatever.
post #25176 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

I don't disagree with your main points, but hold out hope that there will still be room for innovation. We're talking about data that's dynamic, not static. Naturally over time teams will model themselves after what has proved effective. If you're employing model A when most of the league is playing model C, the results you achieve might be be exactly the same when everyone else has moved to A or A.2. Put differently every system or program or combination of players is effective not in some fixed way, but rather will be differently effective depending on what every other team is putting on the floor.

On your F1 point --
The girlfriend and I are going to the Indy 500 this year. Totally random whim trip. We both know fuck-all about racing - I think the last time I watched more than ten minutes of the Indy 500 was the first time Rick Mears won it. But we need to decide who to root for. Any suggestions? Since we're not racing fans, I'm less interested in trying to handicap the likely winner than picking someone who's a likeable oddball, fun to pull for because he's outrageous in non-douchey way, somebody who's a longshot but a classy, hardworking vet who's due, or whatever.

For the analytics, unfortunately another racing analogy. F1 is overwhelmingly dominated by aerodynamics. They're so sensitive that they can't follow each other because the wake of the car ahead is so destabilizing to the car behind. If you can't get close, you can't pass. So all these engineers spend millions finding fractions of a second, but a spectator can't see the difference, they only see processional racing. So when an NBA a team finds a bit of analysis that shows 1 more rebound a game, who would actually notice that in the course of a game?

In your point you have model A, B and C, but all these would basically be identical to each other. The nature of analytics would virtually demand the same style because of convergent evolution. and any effective modal shift would be copied almost instantly.

Re Indy... what they race at Indy and F1 are completely different cars. I don't watch Indy cars so I wouldn't have much to offer save that they do about 270mph down those straits which must be an impressive sight. Before F1 rule changes muted the engines, I would have recommended going to the Grand Prix in Montreal and now Austin. With the muted turbo engines, a large part of the spectacle is missing. What I would highly recommend is to see MotoGP live, its the best racing in the world at the moment.
post #25177 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

Btw what's gotten into Ray Felton?? Cuban spends a decade trying to get Deron Williams and when he finally does, he's outplayed by (formerly) fat Raymond...lol

rick carlisle happened to ray
post #25178 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

I hate to feed the FCM, but Indy drafted Kawhi.
There is tons of data so with method and systemic interpretation, as data points grow, you can refine the gap on what is the most efficient offense possible.

While this sounds compelling on the surface, it sucks because everyone will essentially reach the same conclusions and end up playing the same, players will look the same, and the same few shots will be all we see. Boring.

To a GM an coach, efficiency is valuable. A team focused only on analytics will, over the very long term, win more. But to an observer, it isn't exactly a good show. I'm active over on the F1 thread, those cars have become so perfect that they've actually become boring as fuck to watch race. You need an occasional blown engine to keep it entertaining. Basketball will suffer the same fate.

Things will get even worse when they finally wake up and take all this data to make it predictive.

indy drafted kawhi for the spurs. they had already discussed a trade beforehand between george hill and kawhi
post #25179 of 27206
ffffuuuu.gif BDD ffffuuuu.gifffffuuuu.gifffffuuuu.gifffffuuuu.gifffffuuuu.gifffffuuuu.gifffffuuuu.gif

we'll get em next time boys
post #25180 of 27206
Tough games from Klay, Draymond, and Barnes. Somehow almost stole it because Shaun has been amazing.
post #25181 of 27206
best backup pg in the game. could start for half the teams out there. that jump shot is so pretty
post #25182 of 27206

So Harden saved the Rockets from utter embarrassment by scoring a late step-back Jumper for a 11-point-win in the waning seconds.

 

Of course, the Rockets bench reacted as if their grandma died, or, as Bill Simmons put it, as someone who just realized they have to delay their post-sweep vacation.

 

That is bad enough.

 

What makes it worse it how some Rockets-Fans try to defend this. here some of the best pearls from clutchfans.net:

- There were still 2 SECONDS to Play!

- They were still shocked they wasted their lead!

- Brewer was STARTING TO CLAP HIS HANDS!!!

  ---> his Expression still looked as if his grandma died

 

This ís the best:

"But Howard was FIST-PUMPING UNDER HIS WARM UPS!!!! FIST PUMPING UNDER HIS WARM UPS!!!!!!"

 

Did I already mention that Howard was FIST PUMPING UNDER HIS WARM UP while looking like his grandma just died?

 

Just end this series already, please.

post #25183 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by globobock View Post
 

So Harden saved the Rockets from utter embarrassment by scoring a late step-back Jumper for a 11-point-win in the waning seconds.

 

Of course, the Rockets bench reacted as if their grandma died, or, as Bill Simmons put it, as someone who just realized they have to delay their post-sweep vacation.

 

That is bad enough.

 

What makes it worse it how some Rockets-Fans try to defend this. here some of the best pearls from clutchfans.net:

- There were still 2 SECONDS to Play!

- They were still shocked they wasted their lead!

- Brewer was STARTING TO CLAP HIS HANDS!!!

  ---> his Expression still looked as if his grandma died

 

This ís the best:

"But Howard was FIST-PUMPING UNDER HIS WARM UPS!!!! FIST PUMPING UNDER HIS WARM UPS!!!!!!"

 

Did I already mention that Howard was FIST PUMPING UNDER HIS WARM UP while looking like his grandma just died?

 

Just end this series already, please.


OK, I've calmed down.

 

Maybe they were just tensed.

#benefitofthedoubt

 

Because otherwise it makes no sense in 1000 years to be so emotionless during clutch (sic) time of a Playoff game. 

post #25184 of 27206
post #25185 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

https://streamable.com/6c2x

I think they were stunned by disbelief. I hope they manage to pull another victory out so the Spurs get more rest. The geezers need it.

I wonder if Curry's ankle is worse than they're letting on...
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