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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1608

post #24106 of 27236
So you're saying a franchise should suck for 8 years straight while players develop just to have a chance to succeed? Hmmm. Sounds like a shit plan.
post #24107 of 27236

At least Philadelphia has a plan, and they're sticking with it. Most other terrible franchises/GMs/owners literally had no plan. As soon as they have money in FA, they just spend it on someone (Detroit signing Josh Smith is the most recent one off the top of my head, but there's been too many overpaid, horrible FA signings to count). They trade for a player and instead of then building a team around that player just plug in existing pieces and hope it all works out. If they have a mediocre cast of players that has no chance of winning a championship, they still keep them together instead of shipping out talented misfit players for talented players who will fit the team.

 

Only San Antonio really has a great plan. They only target certain players (FA and draft) because they have a certain system. That might change as Duncan and Ginobili retire, but hopefully Leonard and Aldridge can be the new building blocks.

 

Others in progress but not fully defined are Atlanta, Golden State, Detroit, New York Knicks, Dallas, and Philadelphia (off the top of my head). Atlanta, Golden State, and Philadelphia are coached by ex-San Antonio staff who were relatively new hires. Carlisle runs his system, although I think Cuban sometimes just chases random FAs and trades and his drafts never seem to make sense. Van Gundy also has his system and he has GM control, but he hasn't been there long yet. Jackson and Fisher are trying to define the style of play but it seems like they are going to commit to getting players that fit.

 

All other teams just seem like they are lucky in getting talented players but they don't have any vision yet (Minnesota, Cleveland, Sacramento, Houston, Miami, etc.)

post #24108 of 27236
I'm sure that tank proponents will point out that if Philly had better draft scouting, it would have been far more successful. I find it hilarious that of all the draft picks of the last five years, the best one so far actually plays for the Magic (Nikola Vucevic)

And maybe more ping pong ball luck. They didn't get the top pick in all those years

But whatever. It doesn't matter what the reason is for tanking strategies failing - as long as they do
post #24109 of 27236
I'm not sure any of this stuff lends itself to "a plan". This kind of reminds me when politicians answer every question with "I have a plan for that", which is a red flag for bullshit like when they say the words "the american people".

Seems like it's more about a philosophy and making good decisions in the moment than some long term vision. If someone can point me to the plans of the teams listed above, I'm sure I'd find them interesting reading.

Mostly, I think it's just simple luck with a guy falling in the right place at the right time.
post #24110 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post


Mostly, I think it's just simple luck with a guy falling in the right place at the right time.

This. We are only 3+ years removed from Golden State fans booing the owner during a Chris Mullin jersey retirement. They had a "plan" but really lucked out on picks and pieces falling into place (and steph maturing)
post #24111 of 27236
They drafted well. Which, whoops, is a strategy that has worked since the day the draft was instituted
post #24112 of 27236
Drafting well is not a plan though, it's a skill with a huge luck element akin to professional poker players.
post #24113 of 27236
A strategy that hasnt worked for the sixers.
post #24114 of 27236

Oh please - if they land ben simmons they'll be pretty legit, and everyone will be saying about how smart they are, they played the long game, etc etc etc

post #24115 of 27236

Well I think Golden State has a pretty decent plan now - keep together the team that won the championship. And whatever was the reason to hire Kerr...keep using that logic.

post #24116 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

i agree with everything, but it's not like kyle lowry or mike conley or marc gasol looked like all stars a year or two into their careers. looked more like massive busts

that spurs win over sixers took them from 10th overall offensive efficiency to 3rd overall
Uh, would've been pretty difficult for Marc Gasol to be a "massive bust" since he was only the 48th pick. Plus he actually played pretty well from the start (12 and 7.5 as a rookie)
post #24117 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post

Since there's no CBB thread - UCLA beat Kentucky?!? Lolol.

I was at Wooden that night and went in for the 2nd half… well that was unexpected! happy.gif


Russell had a great game for the Lakers last night… even thought they still ended up losing by 1 point... ugh.
post #24118 of 27236
Kobe goes down, lakers become competitive. Hmmmm
post #24119 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meis View Post

Uh, would've been pretty difficult for Marc Gasol to be a "massive bust" since he was only the 48th pick. Plus he actually played pretty well from the start (12 and 7.5 as a rookie)

shog[1].gif

I dunno what I was thinking when I wrote that. My other two examples are still pretty good I think? Conley more so than Lowry.
post #24120 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

I like watching good hoops, so I'm a detractor of this blatant tanking. Imagine a league (or any major business) where the bottom third was obsessed with putting the shittiest product possible on the market in the short term?

(Well ok, you can do it if you relegate that bottom third to a B league. But that's another topic)

Philly is a top 5 media market too. I'm sure the pressure on the Sixers ownership group was immense from the commissioners' office and the other owners. It's not just a black mark on the league but foregone revenue for everyone through profit sharing.

I don't really fault Hinkie - he found his best chance of success that the system allowed. But the system is broken for incenting him to behave in this manner. And I am happy to see the Sixers fail because it won't create more incentive for this bullshit
this is a fine fine post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

I'm sure that tank proponents will point out that if Philly had better draft scouting, it would have been far more successful. I find it hilarious that of all the draft picks of the last five years, the best one so far actually plays for the Magic (Nikola Vucevic)

And maybe more ping pong ball luck. They didn't get the top pick in all those years

But whatever. It doesn't matter what the reason is for tanking strategies failing - as long as they do
yea they haven't been great at drafting, but they haven't been bad either, probably around average.

honestly philly plays abysmally on offense but they try super hard, and their ineptitude is overblown because hinkie is such a figure of contention. they haven't even had the worst record in the league either of hinkie's 2 years in charge. if all their players weren't injured this year they would have won 1 or 2 games and there wouldn't be such ridiculous pressure on them to win now. like would you rather root for philly, who has a smart gm and a plan to intentionally be trash for 3-4 years and maybe make something special out of it, or the kings, who always try to win immediately and make retarded moves and literally haven't cleared 30 wins since fucking 07-08?
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