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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1521

post #22801 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by double00 View Post

^^^

It's not an argument at all. It's reality.

this is a dumb soundbite and a strawman.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
you were saying lebron isn't finals mvp because he doesn't win games. my counter was mvp isn't about winning it's about being valuable. and then your counter is that your original position isn't even argument? whether or not that's reality is besides the point. we're not even talking about reality. we're talking about history. if lebron wins finals MVP then that becomes reality
Quote:
LeBron didn't even finish 2nd in league mvp voting.

this is also a strawman. we're not talking about league mvp. we're talking about finals mvp
post #22802 of 27206

Well I hope they don't give it to Curry if GS wins. It should be Andre Iguodala.

post #22803 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

just because AI didn't get it doesn't mean lebron doesn't deserve it.

+1

He's been the best player on the court by miles. I can't stand the guy but he's the series MVP.
post #22804 of 27206

Even though James is shooting 39.9% on his FGs, the rest of the team is shooting even worse (37.2%). I can understand that for one game, but this is through 5 games. How do you shoot that poorly when your opponent is concentrating its defense against one guy?

 

I think Cleveland needs a few plays drawn up to counter the double team on LeBron (although I suppose GS might not even bother anymore since no one else can hit a shot).

post #22805 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballmouse View Post

How do you shoot that poorly when your opponent is concentrating its defense against one guy?

I don't want to sound all Stephen A./Sports Guy take but it is the Finals. A hell of a lot more pressure on bigger stage. It can get to guys especially when the experience isn't there. GSW and Kerr have admitted as much in media throughout the series. I remember Games 1-3, Warriors weren't hitting open shots with defenders nowhere near them. And obviously, talent is a huge factor too.LBJ doesn't have the luxury of a Ray Allen or young Mike Miller anymore
post #22806 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post


this is a dumb soundbite and a strawman. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
you were saying lebron isn't finals mvp because he doesn't win games. my counter was mvp isn't about winning it's about being valuable. and then your counter is that your original position isn't even argument? whether or not that's reality is besides the point. we're not even talking about reality. we're talking about history. if lebron wins finals MVP then that becomes reality
this is also a strawman. we're not talking about league mvp. we're talking about finals mvp
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

cuz it's a dumb argument. winners get championships. MVP awards should go to the most valuable player. lebron is the most valuable player on any team. there's not even a counter proposal.

Well, I figured you had dragged the conversation outside of the scope of Finals, so...

 

now that's a strawman

 

Yes, exactly, thank you - my point is that Bron gets nothing if he doesn't win, because winning demonstrates value, not being spectacular. As for who the mvp is, i think probably iguodala has enabled the w's both ways, but offense is probably most important because that's been lacking when they lose. w's are playing tremendous team defense. 

 

Look, I get that James is dominant. I just don't believe in the mvp as a consolation prize. 

post #22807 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by double00 View Post

Well, I figured you had dragged the conversation outside of the scope of Finals, so...

now that's a strawman

Yes, exactly, thank you - my point is that Bron gets nothing if he doesn't win, because winning demonstrates value, not being spectacular. As for who the mvp is, i think probably iguodala has enabled the w's both ways, but offense is probably most important because that's been lacking when they lose. w's are playing tremendous team defense. 

Look, I get that James is dominant. I just don't believe in the mvp as a consolation prize. 

You guys bickering over strawmen aside, simple question for you: in these finals, whose been the best player in the series so far?
post #22808 of 27206
there should be a Finals LVP award too, just for fun. Which JR Smith has on lock
post #22809 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

there should be a Finals LVP award too, just for fun. Which JR Smith has on lock

I dunno, man, I'd pick any one of Shawn Marion, Brendan Haywood, Kendrick Perkins, K-Love, and Kyrie for that...

post #22810 of 27206
I'd give the LVP to a guy that actually played in nongarbage time.

JR gets my vote for LVP.
post #22811 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post


You guys bickering over strawmen aside, simple question for you: in these finals, whose been the best player in the series so far?

 

So far, best player = lebron

post #22812 of 27206
i don't think there's any question so far who the mvp is. Lebron by a mile. if only by default -- if not him, who? if curry had played the whole series the way he did last night, that would be easy. but he tanked the first three games. iguodala has had a heckuva series, but he's had a heckuva series in the context of nobody expecting as much from him. i just don't see how you can have a guy nearly average a triple-double playing on a seriously depleted team and taking the series to 6 games and not give him the mvp. last night he had a direct hand in something like 26 of the 32 Cleveland field goals. that's crazy.
post #22813 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

i don't think there's any question so far who the mvp is.
Does Fred Hickman have a vote?
post #22814 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

i don't think there's any question so far who the mvp is. Lebron by a mile. if only by default -- if not him, who? if curry had played the whole series the way he did last night, that would be easy. but he tanked the first three games. iguodala has had a heckuva series, but he's had a heckuva series in the context of nobody expecting as much from him. i just don't see how you can have a guy nearly average a triple-double playing on a seriously depleted team and taking the series to 6 games and not give him the mvp. last night he had a direct hand in something like 26 of the 32 Cleveland field goals. that's crazy.

Exactly. Iguodala is not even a consideration. Lots of role players do well in a series, so what, just giving him consideration shows you there is nobody on the GSW worthy.

If Lebron was not in the series it would be 4 strait 30 point blowouts. Just for making it a series gives him the award.
post #22815 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

if curry had played the whole series the way he did last night, that would be easy. but he tanked the first three games.

I don't take issue with your other statements, but to say that Curry tanked the first three games is ridiculous. He had a horrible game 2 - that is beyond dispute. But in each of games 1 and 3 he shot 50% from the field. He averaged 26.5 pts, 5 rebounds, 7 assists and 2.5 steals in those 2 games. He made 7 threes in game 3.

As a warriors fan, I wouldn't really take issue with Lebron winning the MVP. He has done more than any other player (I think ever) could do to help his team win. If he leads them to victory in this series, it would easily be the most impressive individual performance in a team championship that I can remember - and the only thing that even comes close is MadBum in last year's world series.

EDIT: Just for more color on how "bad" Curry has been, there have only been 6 Finals MVPs to ever average more than 25/5/6 during the finals, and Lebron and Kobe are the only people to do it since MJ. MJ did it twice, Magic once and Isaiah Thomas once. I don't think Curry has anything to be ashamed of, even with the one horrible game.
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