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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1457

post #21841 of 27247
Thread Starter 
If he scores like this every night (or close to it) then he is looking less of a product of a system but an elite player instead. I mean from 12ppg last year to 16-17ppg this year is a big jump (not to mention more reb, ast and stl) and when he becomes the number one option (and will keep improving), I can see him averaging 20+ now and I really didn't see that based solely on the playoffs/finals last year alone.
post #21842 of 27247
his box score stats don't show how dominant he is on defense. dude is an absolute beast and stifles everything

he is already one of those players where a max contract undervalues him
post #21843 of 27247
SA dismantles LAC. 49 points after 3 quarters? End of series.

After a promising game 1, it's been a gradual downhill slide. Paul can't deal with size, Jordan neutralized, Griffin can't execute. The benches are starting to impact the series in a way some have feared, it's starting to look like SA can't be stopped. The subtlety is amazing, like a racing driver that eeks out a tenth in every sector, pretty soon he has a 6 second lead. It's that way here as the Spurs are just better at making the kinds of small changes you can hardly tell happened, but then you look at the amazingly low 49 points and wonder how.

I was wrong about Leonard, he is a max player. Keep him in SA.
post #21844 of 27247
Thread Starter 
No doubt on his defense, I mean he showed that by shutting down Lebron last year.

If that was all he delivers this year again without any improvement, then my stance on him benefiting from Pops system and not worth max would have stayed. But he has made the leap and looks to be a good offensive player (and still improving) now too so now I am more sold on him.
post #21845 of 27247
thats true his leap in offense makes a more convincing case for max. but IMO he was already max and this just takes him to that next level of players where max is too little for him

I don't know what the hell I'm saying. Just kinda in awe of that game.
post #21846 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Version 7 View Post

^ In all seriousness, has your mind changed about Kawhi being a max player??

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

If he scores like this every night (or close to it) then he is looking less of a product of a system but an elite player instead. I mean from 12ppg last year to 16-17ppg this year is a big jump (not to mention more reb, ast and stl) and when he becomes the number one option (and will keep improving), I can see him averaging 20+ now and I really didn't see that based solely on the playoffs/finals last year alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

his box score stats don't show how dominant he is on defense. dude is an absolute beast and stifles everything

he is already one of those players where a max contract undervalues him

Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

SA dismantles LAC. 49 points after 3 quarters? End of series.

After a promising game 1, it's been a gradual downhill slide. Paul can't deal with size, Jordan neutralized, Griffin can't execute. The benches are starting to impact the series in a way some have feared, it's starting to look like SA can't be stopped. The subtlety is amazing, like a racing driver that eeks out a tenth in every sector, pretty soon he has a 6 second lead. It's that way here as the Spurs are just better at making the kinds of small changes you can hardly tell happened, but then you look at the amazingly low 49 points and wonder how.

I was wrong about Leonard, he is a max player. Keep him in SA.

Me too, and I'm a Spurs fan. At least I fixed my avatar.
post #21847 of 27247
I don't want get to ahead of myself but when Duncan finally retires (which might be in another 10 years), Manu is gone, and Parker eventually leaves too; the thought of the Spurs led by Kawhi is so damn intriguing. What'll it look like? Will the LaMarcus Aldridge rumours come to fruition? LaMarcus, Kawhi, Green, Tiago...
post #21848 of 27247
LMA's free agency is definitely intriguing. Miami is another rumored destination that makes sense, at least on paper. He'd form a pretty lethal frontcourt with Chris Bosh, and with Dragic facilitating, that would be a scary offense.
post #21849 of 27247
Iunno. A bosh LMA Whiteside frontcourt sounds crowded
post #21850 of 27247
Thread Starter 
The thing is are the Spurs willing to pay max for LMA if it comes to that? I mean they aren't even sure they want to plunk that much for Kawhi and iirc none of the Spurs players are at max contract right now mainly because they've developed them through drafts but that might soon change with Kawhis advancement. Then Green will be on FA next year (I think they mentioned it during the game) which will likely command big bucks because of defense and spacing on offense. Maybe they'd do it while Pop is still coaching because this last contract he signed might just be his final one?

And LMA and Bosh looks redundant in the same team, Whiteside could play with either one but I don't think those 3 on the line-up all at the same time work well.
post #21851 of 27247
They didn't give Kawhi an extension because it would tie up their cap. They're hoping they sign a free agent in the summer and then offer kawhi max.

Green is the big kink cuz he's going to command a lot of money on the market. If they pay green they won't have enough for an elite free agent like LMA.
post #21852 of 27247
Thread Starter 
I forget the complete story since we were talking about it in the pre-season iirc but how would it tie up their cap? Wouldn't it be just like the Klay case anyways, whatever they extend to him earlier would have been the same for later? I think one of the reason was they were thinking the max offers wouldn't be there for the market/teams he would want to go to (contenders?) then they can easily match for less instead of paying max?


But the way he is performing now, max deals will be coming left and right. I guess the question is how much would they have paid him has they extended his contract versus the max contract he will get now that they'd have to match?
post #21853 of 27247
Honestly I'm not a cap and deadline expert but from what I understand it would've been like the chandler parsons/Chris bosh situation

I think Brothersport already said something about it but also from what I understand kawhi's early extension is comparable to the team not giving him an extension and paying him more later. I think Kawhi gets more money the latter way but also the early extension means their cap is down by that amount versus having only kawhi's rookie deal count against their cap
post #21854 of 27247
Thread Starter 
Found this chart from last year and it seems like it is about more or less $3mil more within 4 years and then the extra 5th year would cost about $20m while signing an offer sheet only gets him for four years.

Quote:
Using a crude 2015-16 cap projection (assuming the cap rises from 2014-15 the same amount its projected to increase from 2013-14), here are the maximum amounts Leonard could get re-signing or extending his deal with the Spurs (black) or signing an offer sheet with another team (silver):
image_thumb35.png?w=620&h=337


But that was from June of last year, with the jump in cap space coming up, wouldn't they have to pay more for Kawhi now than that projection because teams can offer much more now as well while if they extended Kawhi he would have been locked for that price which would be lower? Similar to how Klays contract might be bigger if they had to match an offer sheet later on because cap is bigger which makes resigning him a good move?


The article also somewhat assumes Kawhi might be convinced to take less money and before knowing that Kawhi would explore the free agency to look for as much money as he could: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/17/why-the-spurs-shouldnt-extend-kawhi-leonards-contract/
post #21855 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Found this chart from last year and it seems like it is about more or less $3mil more within 4 years and then the extra 5th year would cost about $20m while signing an offer sheet only gets him for four years.
But that was from June of last year, with the jump in cap space coming up, wouldn't they have to pay more for Kawhi now than that projection because teams can offer much more now as well while if they extended Kawhi he would have been locked for that price which would be lower? Similar to how Klays contract might be bigger if they had to match an offer sheet later on because cap is bigger which makes resigning him a good move?


The article also somewhat assumes Kawhi might be convinced to take less money and before knowing that Kawhi would explore the free agency to look for as much money as he could: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/17/why-the-spurs-shouldnt-extend-kawhi-leonards-contract/

yeah but the point i was trying to make was that this and next year they are paying kawhi his rookie deal. my understanding was that if they gave him an early extension they would have had to pay that increase in salary next year. kawhi is owed $7 million next year, whereas if they gave him an early extension they would've owed him $16 million next year.

if they pay him $16 million next year it means 1) they can't offer a free agent max money 2) they're paying him $9 million more than the $7 million they would've paid him. the savings from number 2 (from not offering an early extension) will help offset the increase in his salary from the oncoming salary cap jump a little bit in the short term. that same $7 million extra can help them nab a free agent

it's a risky all or nothing deal because they could be in the same position as the rockets where they missed out on chandler parsons and chris bosh. they're doing it because they don't mind paying kawhi even more money than they could have with an early extension if they can get kawhi and an elite free agent for a long term contract.

basically they're super confident kawhi will resign with them. and if he doesn't it'll really fuck their team up. they're also making a big gamble that they can indeed get an elite free agent because otherwise like you pointed out kawhi will be getting paid a lot more money than they could've paid him

i think the last issue was maybe that spurs front office was not actually sure that kawhi was worth max. conjecture and prolly unlikely

i'm not exactly sure i got the years right tho cuz the salary cap is set to jump in 2016/2017 but it looks right to me


they signed klay that deal for the reasons you mentioned. this is unlike the klay deal because warriors weren't trying to nab an elite free agent in the coming year
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