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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1445

post #21661 of 27209
i agree player development is way underrated; i def don't take it into account enough. some players can seriously change their futures. like conley looked like a bust his 1st year and kept slowly improving year after year. dragic his rookie year seriously didn't look like he would ever become an nba player.

not sure how many players had good mentors tho, at least in respect to on-court skills. coaches are prob way more important in that respect. like jimmy butler and klay didn't have any mentor wings that taught them to make huge leaps in skills did they? there prob is something in vets teaching younger players how to generally handle themselves in training/practice/etc.
post #21662 of 27209
Who wouldn't want a Paul Pierce or David West type in the locker room and on the court? I mean, they might be pricks but they have their uses.
post #21663 of 27209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

i agree player development is way underrated; i def don't take it into account enough.

The tanking advocate repents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

like jimmy butler and klay didn't have any mentor wings that taught them to make huge leaps in skills did they? there prob is something in vets teaching younger players how to generally handle themselves in training/practice/etc.

Butler credits Luol Deng for his mentorship. Not to burst the bubble you inhabit, but veteran influence is not a revelation.
post #21664 of 27209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

i agree player development is way underrated; i def don't take it into account enough. some players can seriously change their futures. like conley looked like a bust his 1st year and kept slowly improving year after year. dragic his rookie year seriously didn't look like he would ever become an nba player.

not sure how many players had good mentors tho, at least in respect to on-court skills. coaches are prob way more important in that respect. like jimmy butler and klay didn't have any mentor wings that taught them to make huge leaps in skills did they? there prob is something in vets teaching younger players how to generally handle themselves in training/practice/etc.

yeah i mean it isn't just older vets who play with you. it's also the coaching staff (who are usually vets). but i feel like you really need those guys who've been where you are (and helps a lot more if they were at your position). i dont really remember who mentored who, but i know kobe was mentored by MJ a bit (and connected with byron scott his rookie year). kevin durant had a few vets in his locker room when he was developing and he's said kevin ollie really helped him develop a professional attitude. bledsoe had CP3. dragic had nash. tim duncan had david robinson. rashard lewis had gary payton and ray allen (he said when he saw ray be the first in the gym every day and see the rigorous routine he went through he shaped up and made himself more professional)

or i was reading how jared dudley will communicate and call offensive sets as it is happening so the young'ns know what to do and where to go. and same with kyle lowry. how he calls everything as it's happening and the young guys listen and step up their rotations in anticipation

i wouldn't say it's everything or that all players need it, but I feel like it does a matter a lot. there are no nba vets on the sixers coaching staff. brett brown played like a year or two in the nba. nobody that walked the walk to talk the talk. basically all they have is allen iverson and they only trust him to run the twitter account. who's the guy that's going to push them to work out and practice hard every day? cuz i feel like most people would lack the motivation to play hard for a team they know is a bad team and is going to be losing for a long time. i also feel like they would only care about getting stats and the next big contract instead of playing more of a team game

yeah and what neo said. like having KG or pierce in your locker room i feel does a lot of things for the young players.
post #21665 of 27209
Iverson and practice. Not the best combo. marchal.gif
post #21666 of 27209
At least we'll have some gahd-dayum bball today!
post #21667 of 27209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

predictions for the 1st round?

mine: gsw in 4 (just way too good)
hou in 5 (dallas has nobody to guard harden)
clippers in 7 (?????)
memphis in 7 (if healthy, would take them in 5 or 6)

atl in 4 (brk bleh)
cle in 5 (stephens will pull out a win)
chi in 5 (mil has no experience, chicago can be pretty potent)
tor in 7 (playoff wittman!)
......agree or disagree?

ATL in 5 (Joe will steal one in NY)
CLE in 4 (LBJ will steamroll over them in PO)
CHI in 5
WAS in 7

GS in 4
HOU in 7 (hou will have hard time guarding anyone esp monta/rondo)
MEM in 5
SA in 6
post #21668 of 27209
Hawks sweep
Cleveland in 5
Chicago in 6
Toronto in 6
GSW in 5
Dallas in 7
Memphis in 6
Spurs in 6
post #21669 of 27209
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

ATL in 5 (Joe will steal one in NY)
CLE in 4 (LBJ will steamroll over them in PO)
CHI in 5
WAS in 7

GS in 4
HOU in 7 (hou will have hard time guarding anyone esp monta/rondo)
MEM in 5
SA in 6
Do you need to guard Romdo these days? smile.gif
post #21670 of 27209
^ He's shooting so bad I wouldn't put it past Houston to employ hack-a-Rondo
post #21671 of 27209
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Do you need to guard Romdo these days? smile.gif

Well i meant mostly for monta but Rondo can cause some problems if he plays anything like he used to in playoffs
post #21672 of 27209
The Drakes choke again. Pierce on his "This is why they brought me here!" tip.
post #21673 of 27209
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

yeah i mean it isn't just older vets who play with you. it's also the coaching staff (who are usually vets). but i feel like you really need those guys who've been where you are (and helps a lot more if they were at your position). i dont really remember who mentored who, but i know kobe was mentored by MJ a bit (and connected with byron scott his rookie year). kevin durant had a few vets in his locker room when he was developing and he's said kevin ollie really helped him develop a professional attitude. bledsoe had CP3. dragic had nash. tim duncan had david robinson. rashard lewis had gary payton and ray allen (he said when he saw ray be the first in the gym every day and see the rigorous routine he went through he shaped up and made himself more professional)

or i was reading how jared dudley will communicate and call offensive sets as it is happening so the young'ns know what to do and where to go. and same with kyle lowry. how he calls everything as it's happening and the young guys listen and step up their rotations in anticipation

i wouldn't say it's everything or that all players need it, but I feel like it does a matter a lot. there are no nba vets on the sixers coaching staff. brett brown played like a year or two in the nba. nobody that walked the walk to talk the talk. basically all they have is allen iverson and they only trust him to run the twitter account. who's the guy that's going to push them to work out and practice hard every day? cuz i feel like most people would lack the motivation to play hard for a team they know is a bad team and is going to be losing for a long time. i also feel like they would only care about getting stats and the next big contract instead of playing more of a team game

yeah and what neo said. like having KG or pierce in your locker room i feel does a lot of things for the young players.
i don't disagree w/ any of the stuff you said about teaching them how to be professionals; i mentioned that in my post. that's also something that a lot of ppl mention for team USA, where up-and-coming talents learn how much work the elite players have to put in to practice. that also goes into knowing the offense/defense and scouting opponents.

i'm just iffier on how important it is to have an older player physically teach you tricks and skills. like i said, i think coaches are a lot more helpful in that regard. i'm sure kobe spoke to mj occasionally about the big picture, but he sure wasn't getting tutored on post moves. bledsoe doesn't really play anything like cp3 now. jimmy butler made his offensive explosion way after deng left. boston had a great locker room culture of vets, but they didn't develop any young players (not that they had many).

there are some cases where it's certainly helpful, like dragic/nash and duncan/robinson like you mentioned (altho duncan didn't really need much help). so like i said, i don't think vets play essential roles in younger plays developing on-court skills. but i do think vets can be very important for setting the tone for the locker room etc (altho it's not a requirement, like in okc, golden state).
post #21674 of 27209

Second year in a row that The Truth is giving Toronto the business...

post #21675 of 27209
i mean i dont think it's everything and yes coaching staff is probably more influential for developing player skills, but i do think vets do more than just locker room stuff. i mean you have these 18, 19 year olds that are all of a sudden millionaries and constantly travelling. i feel like vets are necessary. i mean a lot of players talk about the grind and how it's important to present mentally consistently.

and they also do teach on court skills. like derrick favors was talking talking about al jefferson really helped him master the up and under move, which honestly he uses a lot. (and this is only one that i can think that was captured on video. i'm certain it happens hell of a lot more. it's one thing for an assistant coach to teach you the move and practice. it's another thing to see someone pull it off successfully in a real game and constantly be able to pick his brain and receive critiques in return)

and whether or not jimmy butler developed by himself without any vet input seems a little irrelevant. i'm not saying every player needs a vet or that a vet always helps. i'm saying generally having a vet really helps in every aspect of the game on court and off court and development will be slower without vets (not saying it doesnt happen at all without vets)


anyways whether or not they teach every player a lot of on court skills, my point is that sixers have no vets at all and i think it will lead to developmental retardation. basically i just think sixers are overlooking some crucial aspects of player development

i do think that maybe it's a better idea to start bringing in vets when the players a little more developed and actually start winning games, but i'm wondering if that'll be soon enough.

like lebron was talking about how the first 20, 30 or so games he realized that kyrie and dion were too used to playing in a me first mode that didn't help the team. he finally snapped at kyrie when he had a zero assist game as a point guard and had a talk with him. the next game lebron basically showed him how a point guard should be playing (by playing point guard himself) and even though it was a shitty game kyrie got the message and they've been doing pretty well since then (probably not just because of that but it probably also helped a lot)


i feel like we agree on the general point but just disagree on the extent on how much it matters. you think vets provide a good locker room atmosphere and the other stuff is not as beneficial as a good coaching staff whereas i think they're very important in every aspect (also in addition to good coaching staff)
Edited by indesertum - 4/18/15 at 2:08pm
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