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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1390

post #20836 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post


let's just give Rudy a max contract right now. screw this rookie scale or whatever it is

Good man. Now we're talking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

i realize you're joking, but gobert really is a max player. complete offense altering rim protection is not so easy to come by much less with his offensive development. he can almost dunk standing flat footed. you can't do anything near the rim with gobert around and i'm pretty sure he has the best (lowest) opponent fgp around the rim

I really did laugh out loud. You should be the one joking here.
post #20837 of 27247
https://vine.co/v/O0wAab7qat1
post #20838 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

i realize you're joking, but gobert really is a max player.
Only partially. I'm a big fan.

Obv the Jazz won't give him raise until they have to, but I think the kid's going to be great
post #20839 of 27247
gobert would absolutely get the max from at least some team if he were somehow an unrestricted FA right now. You don't pass up on a 22 yo potential defensive player of the year who isn't completely broken on offense.

As with all young players, teams have to pay for potential as much as established level of play.

But yeah, there's a reason that the CBA is structured w/ rookie deals: to cut down on that risk as much as possible for owners.
post #20840 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

gobert would absolutely get the max from at least some team if he were somehow an unrestricted FA right now. You don't pass up on a 22 yo potential defensive player of the year who isn't completely broken on offense.

As with all young players, teams have to pay for potential as much as established level of play.

But yeah, there's a reason that the CBA is structured w/ rookie deals: to cut down on that risk as much as possible for owners.



No Experience Necessary With a straight face, rookie Glenn Robinson asked the Milwaukee Bucks for $100 million

^the funny part is that the league almost imploded (from both players and teams) after this and Robinson ended up signing a 10 year $68 million dollar contract that had him actually probably undervalued and underpaid by the time he got out of it (because he was above average then and basketball was mirroring baseball with wild huge contracts). If he just waited a little and did the opt out clause after a short time he would've probably got that $100,000,000.00 contract before that next NBA lockout/shortened season.

what I found interesting is that back in the day the only time the NFL players actually had any leverage over the league/teams was if they were prized top NFL draft prospects. Since they were eligible for the draft they basically were treated as free agents and could hold out and not play until the team PAID them. Naturally getting a top pick in the NFL draft pre 2011 (before they put in a rookie wage scale) was actually something teams activity didn't want because it meant you had to pay out the nose for your rookie who may not even be good player.
post #20841 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

gobert would absolutely get the max from at least some team if he were somehow an unrestricted FA right now. You don't pass up on a 22 yo potential defensive player of the year who isn't completely broken on offense.

We have a kid that averaged like 2 points and 3 rebounds last season, and 7 and 7 this. He's started like what, 4 or 5 games since EK left? As a GM I could only wish someone would be dumb enough to max him. Fuck, just give Thon Maker a max deal while you're at it.
post #20842 of 27247
If you wanna focus on irrelevant stats and make dumb hyperbole its your prerogative; you're the one bleeding your young talent and being selectively retarded.

That is, if you're too stupid to see what is so valuable about a player that most in the know agree would be the first pick in last year's draft, then why do you even bother commenting on the game
post #20843 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

If you wanna focus on irrelevant stats and make dumb hyperbole its your prerogative; you're the one bleeding your young talent and being selectively retarded.

That is, if you're too stupid to see what is so valuable about a player that most in the know agree would be the first pick in last year's draft, then why do you even bother commenting on the game

they do have the Derrick Rose provision now though... so if someone line Anthony Davis can be locked up to a max contract earlier and both parties agree then all is good...


they really should probably re-name that particular provision though.... then again the Larry Bird "rights" or provision is was started to have star players be able to stay with their team (SALARY CAP BE DAMMED!) and the reality was that Bird was pretty much a broken down player on his last legs. maybe the derrick rose provision is properly labeled, because he encompasses/symbolizes the risk and reward of doing it.
post #20844 of 27247
Gobert per-36, second year in NBA:
11.4 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 3.6 bpg, .632FG/.620FT, 21.9 PER, 5.7 WS, 5.0 defensive +/-

Dwight Howard per-36, second year:
15.4 ppg, 12.2 rpg, 1.4 bpg, .531FG/.595FT, 19.3 PER, 8.6 WS, 1.4 defensive +/-
post #20845 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

If you wanna focus on irrelevant stats and make dumb hyperbole its your prerogative; you're the one bleeding your young talent and being selectively retarded.

That is, if you're too stupid to see what is so valuable about a player that most in the know agree would be the first pick in last year's draft, then why do you even bother commenting on the game

Stats are irrelevant at your convenience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

Gobert per-36, second year in NBA:
11.4 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 3.6 bpg, .632FG/.620FT, 21.9 PER, 5.7 WS, 5.0 defensive +/-

Dwight Howard per-36, second year:
15.4 ppg, 12.2 rpg, 1.4 bpg, .531FG/.595FT, 19.3 PER, 8.6 WS, 1.4 defensive +/-

Look at the list of max player superstars below. I don't know where you get the other stats, but for comparison, 2nd year stats per 36...


Andrea Bargnani
15.3 pts, 5.6 rebounds, 1 blocks, 2 3s a game

Kwame Brown
12 pts, 8.6 rebounds, 1.6 blocks

Nikoloz Tskitishvili
12 pts, 7.5 boards, 1 block

Michael Olowokandi
11 pts, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks

Joe Smith
17 pts, 8 rebounds, 1 block

Robert Swift
11 pts, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks

Pervis Ellison
15 pts, 11 rebounds, 3 blocks

Raef LaFrentz
15 pts, 10 rebounds, 3 blocks

Eddie Curry
18 pts, 8.1 rebounds, 1.4 blocks

Sam Bowie
14 pts, 10.5 rebounds, 3 blocks
Edited by idfnl - 3/4/15 at 8:35am
post #20846 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post

they do have the Derrick Rose provision now though... so if someone line Anthony Davis can be locked up to a max contract earlier and both parties agree then all is good...
nah, the derrick rose rule only increases the $$ of the next (max) contract of a player, it doesn't allow him to get the money sooner. the whole rookie contract still has to be played out, whether or not they agree on an extension.
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

Stats are irrelevant at your convenience.
Stats are relevant at your convenience.


I don't know where you get the other stats, but for comparison here are a few other players 2nd year stats per 36...
you're deliberately misleading because you originally quoted gobert's per-game stats. you know it and everyone knows it. you're not fooling anyone.

just like you're misleading because you claim you couldn't just go to basketball reference and see that:
barg's 2nd-yr PER was 10.6, he shot 39%, he had 1.4 win shares, his defensive box +/- was -1.2; kwame's was 13.6, 45%, 2.5, 0.7; etc etc. none of those players above have had gobert's defensive impact. some of them are actually good players too! ellison, joe smith, i have no idea why you would include them on that list.

per game stats for rookies or 2nd year players are never relevant. that's not at my convenience. i can't tell you that i know what goes into defensive box +/- or win shares, but i have infinitely more faith in them than the popcorn stats you listed.

all of this is pointless because i seriously doubt you've actually watched gobert play more than 40 minutes in your life. which is fine, but if so, don't go spouting dumb stats at everyone
post #20847 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

you're deliberately misleading because you originally quoted gobert's per-game stats. you know it and everyone knows it. you're not fooling anyone.

I quoted season averages which aren't intended to fool anyone. They're just facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

just like you're misleading because you claim you couldn't just go to basketball reference and see that:
barg's 2nd-yr PER was 10.6, he shot 39%, he had 1.4 win shares, his defensive box +/- was -1.2; kwame's was 13.6, 45%, 2.5, 0.7; etc etc. none of those players above have had gobert's defensive impact. some of them are actually good players too! ellison, joe smith, i have no idea why you would include them on that list.

per game stats for rookies or 2nd year players are never relevant. that's not at my convenience. i can't tell you that i know what goes into defensive box +/- or win shares, but i have infinitely more faith in them than the popcorn stats you listed.

Not interested enough to look, and too much typing. In your weird world its all about upside, upside upside. A lot of 2nd year guys show some life then become that list. I remember Eddie Curry his second season, you'd have driven the Brinks truck up over it. My point was that your valuations are just hyperbole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

all of this is pointless because i seriously doubt you've actually watched gobert play more than 40 minutes in your life. which is fine, but if so, don't go spouting dumb stats at everyone

I've watched him twice. Won't be betting the farm.
post #20848 of 27247
deliberately dense as always, good job. true mark of an internet idiot is never being willing to learn anything from a less ignorant majority.
post #20849 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

deliberately dense as always, good job. true mark of an internet idiot is never being willing to learn anything from a less ignorant majority.

Try making a substantive argument, then. When you resort to ^ it usually means you don't have one.
post #20850 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

We have a kid that averaged like 2 points and 3 rebounds last season, and 7 and 7 this. He's started like what, 4 or 5 games since EK left? As a GM I could only wish someone would be dumb enough to max him. Fuck, just give Thon Maker a max deal while you're at it.

why are you so fucking retarded? he's averaging 7 and 7 this season because he only just got the starting job. if anything you should look at per 36 minutes not retarded fantasy stats. he's a fantasy stud btw and within top 40.

dude literally changes offensive schemes by himself because nobody can get in the paint with him there. opponent fgp when he's protecting rim is like 40% which is ridiculous. on the offensive end you just have throw a ball somewhere in the vicinity of the hoop and he can dunk it if he's in the slot. he's one of tallest dudes in the nba right now and you just can't out rebound the dude. he's also not sim bhullar and dude is actually very agile. on the pick and roll just by him rolling defenders get sucked in to bump in and with his passing abilities he can see the open guys and hit them with the ball

he clearly can't get the max now because he has two more years on his contract, but i can guarantee that in two years when they make him an extension it will be max level.


he's already a vastly greater defensive player than dwight howard in his second year
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