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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1355

post #20311 of 27236
Really? Gasol, Randolph, and Conley are stars not superstars. When I think of superstars I think of dudes who can carry a team on their backs. Gasol's the best player and he can't carry a game.

I don't see them as a super team. Just a really really good underrated team

I still think Lowry was the better pick. Grizzlies basically traded him away for Demarre Carroll and didn't even keep him

I'm surprised you're so down on DJ. He's a beast on both ends.
post #20312 of 27236
Thread Starter 
Doesn't get any more super than the Heatles. Kobe, Shaq, Malone and Payton may have that beat but 2 out of those 4 were on their way out.

But even with the Lakers, Shaq & Kobe and Phil were never considered a "super team", neither were the Kobe, Pau, Odom & Bynum team. Granted it's a relatively new term but again it's just the case of a small market team so their players gets underrated in Memphis' and Atlantas case.

As for Doc, I don't want to say it but that one championship win isn't too far fetch from being a fluke.
post #20313 of 27236
i think super team discussions are kind of dumb but it would be bizarre to say that memphis or atlanta is more of a super team than the clippers.

phoenix CANNOT catch a break. they've now lost on so many buzzer beaters. this one was a boogie long 2 that bounced on the rim like 40 times before dropping in.
post #20314 of 27236
As much as I like the Suns I don't see how they can get out of perpetually fighting for 8th seed in the western conference.
post #20315 of 27236
like long-term, you mean? yeah...they have a lot of intriguing pieces but no star and a gaping hole at center. maybe len gets decent?? but then you still have bledsoe who is supremely talented but doesn't have any idea how to run a team (yet?), and dragic, who is good but not great. same w/ kieff. i guess dragic could be a similar player to teague? isaiah thomas seems destined to be a great gunner for a mediocre (or worse) team.

there are still a ton of rumors that they're gonna trade bled, or let dragic walk. i think management is as pessimistic as you are.
post #20316 of 27236
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

Really? Gasol, Randolph, and Conley are stars not superstars. When I think of superstars I think of dudes who can carry a team on their backs. Gasol's the best player and he can't carry a game.

I still think Lowry was the better pick. Grizzlies basically traded him away for Demarre Carroll and didn't even keep him

I'm surprised you're so down on DJ. He's a beast on both ends.

I am not down on DJ at all but I wouldn't consider him a part of the big 3 or the Clips. I was defending him hand and foot against the troll a week or so ago.


I think that definition of a superstar is too specific and I do think Gasol can carry a team to a win, I've seen him dominate the same Blake could. Randolph used to carry his teams to victory too, including when he played for the Clips. I mean Melo can't win anything for the Knicks but he is a Superstar, same with Wade and Bosh but they can't will their team a win these days.

Gasol might be the only franchise player of the 3 but that doesn't take away from Conley and Randolph. I see those guys as Superstars just because they are actually winning (and not just winning but also competing for a chip) in comparison to players who are beasts but in a losing team.



And we also got to stop looking at things in hindsight and what or who they were traded for. There are some really bad trades out there but some makes sense. I mean Lowry was playing less than 30 minutes and didn't really wow from the start, definitely coaches fault as many cannot shine without minutes. He averaged less than 10 pts and less 4 assist in his first 4-5 seasons? Looking now of course he becomes a bad trade. I mean there are just many factors, if Gay wasn't traded last year chances are good that Lowry might not be an All Star this year.
post #20317 of 27236
Really one of the best rim protectors and roll men in the league and he's not a big 3? I mean he has weaknesses but his strengths more than make up for it.

I thought the Lowry trade was bad at the time. He was a steal that low in the draft and they were just fixated on conleys draft number. As mediocre as Lowry was in the beginning Conley was worse even up to few years after the trade.

I don't recall a single game where gasol dominated like blake occasionally does. He's not an unstoppable beast. He's just very good at what he does. I'm not saying a superstar has to be able to carry the sixers or the knicks to a win but he should be able to carry a decent team. I think superstars as guys like harden, curry, love last year, lbj, KD, Anthony Davis this year. Like guys who can singlehandedly win a very hard game
post #20318 of 27236
the clippers are funny...did you guys hear the simmons zach lowe podcast?

even zach lowe ends up saying that behind the scenes the majority of executives, players, and GMs are "sick of their [the clippers ] shit" - in reference to the team's entitlement, pouting towards refs, and arrogance for not having actually achieved anything. Things like Chris Paul always trying to get half court shots off before a half while violently flopping and then immediately whining/jawing at the refs there was no foul, or how Doc Rivers gets constantly blown by the media because he's very savvy [open to interviews in exchange less scrutiny] but in reality has an iffy record in regards to transactions he's made as a GM.

I'm kind of fascinated on how Chris Paul and Kobe AND Dwight Howard would've eventually tried to play together if those series of trades went down. It would've been soap opera-riffic.
post #20319 of 27236
Yeah, I remember asking you guys if the Clips look like they hate one another in person. RFX had some interesting things to say about the topic IIRC.
post #20320 of 27236
Thread Starter 
Clips definitely bitch and whine on every call. It's annoying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

i think super team discussions are kind of dumb but it would be bizarre to say that memphis or atlanta is more of a super team than the clippers.

In name and recognition, not a contest. But talent-wise, I'm a Clips and Griffin fan but I do see Gasol > Blake this year and Milsap isn't too far along to Griffin (there was a discussion here last season who was better and such), it can even be said Milsap is a bit better because he is more consistent with his range? No way am I saying I'd take those guys to start a franchise over Griffin though. Griffin still needs to stop relying too much on CP3 and that is why I said it wouldn't hurt the Clips if CP3 went down for a week or so so that Blake can dominate again when he has no one to pass the ball to all the time. The team is just way too reliant on him really.


CP3 > Teague and Conley, no doubt there but those two are up there as stars. I just think put those guys in NY or LA and they'd be looked at in a different light. Plus I think Conley and Teague are actually still improving while CP3 seem to be at his peak already and dude is constantly getting hit and beat up and already injury prone from the past.


I don't know, most of those are based on the news I've read and games I've watched, I am in no fantasy league this year so no idea how most of those guys are doing stat-wise though I think I read somewhere that this is one of CP3s worst in the past few years?
post #20321 of 27236
No. CP3 is the same stats wise advanced and box.

Stats wise I feel like gasol and millsap is indeed better than griffin but I feel like griffin is playing well despite his team whereas gasol and millsap have a team and coach around them that plays to their strengths and minimizes their weaknesses. Outside of griffin, CP3, and DJ basically all they have are bench players that are sometimes ok. Hawks are incredibly deep and their play style gives millsap spacing. Gasol is basically their anchor on defense but on offense he's good because the plays they run through him and because they have a good combo of cutters and shooters
post #20322 of 27236
I don't like Simmons' articles because they are way too try hard but I really like his podcasts because it's a fun balance of homerism, knowledge, but also the right amount of lack of knowledge that he asks smart questions
post #20323 of 27236
Thread Starter 
I definitely remember someone saying this is one of this worst in years, he isn't up there in steals and his isn't scoring as much. Still the best in ast to to ratio but I recall someone saying everything else is down?

As for the teams bench, you can't really use that as a fault or to prop up Blake, CP3 and Deandre, they had one of the best bench last year and you wouldn't say they are worst last year than this year or vice versa?

Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

Really one of the best rim protectors and roll men in the league and he's not a big 3? I mean he has weaknesses but his strengths more than make up for it.

I don't recall a single game where gasol dominated like blake occasionally does. He's not an unstoppable beast. He's just very good at what he does. I'm not saying a superstar has to be able to carry the sixers or the knicks to a win but he should be able to carry a decent team. I think superstars as guys like harden, curry, love last year, lbj, KD, Anthony Davis this year. Like guys who can singlehandedly win a very hard game

Again I love Deandre but as Brothersport (?) pointed out earlier, he wasn't even in the top 10 of defense something (I forget). I just don't see him being part of the "big 3" int he Clips, he is there by default but I just don't see that in this team. When people dub teams big 3 I think of "Kobe, Pau and Bynum", the Heatles, "Love, Irving and Lebron", etc...


Gasol has definitely taken over games, I've seen it too often against the Clips and Lakers. I think Foodguy could coroborate on this, I fele he is probably one of the few who has seen as many Clips and Lakers games to know how it feels. lol8[1].gif Like Clips would get close then Marc sink multiple jumpshots and then defend Blake or Pau on the other end preventing a score. Or Marc posts up, gets fouled, fade away and make the shot and free throw for a 3 point play.

I've also seen Zach get offensive rebound and score to either kill the other teams momentum or simply bring the whole team back up.

These two bigs can definitely dominate and change the games just like Blake. Blake is just more explosive but it wasn't even until last year that everyone saw him as a legit "PF". Most analyst like Barkley (and many here actually) thought he is going to be the next Dwight Howard but proved them wrong by actually improving his jumpshot and free throws.
post #20324 of 27236
Has anyone noticed how Zach Lowe has a tendency to always ask a variation of....

"Blake and CP3 aren't playing that well this season, is it just me?"

"Atlanta is going on this unbelievable tear throughout the NBA, am I seeing things?"

"I could be wrong but the Thunder might not make the playoffs, does that seem likely?"
post #20325 of 27236
I dunno. That three point play happened once. I thought clips bench last year wasn't that great just great on name value and on paper. Also collision vs farmar. Who do they really have outside of Jamal Crawford?

Kunk was arguing cp3 was playing his worst according to an eye test (and admittedly he was lazy first half a lot) but all his stats are pretty much exactly the same

I dunno. I feel like your standard for a superstar is lower. Would you consider millsap, boogie, or westbrook a superstar? I feel like gasol is in that range and Zach a lot lower. I would consider them a tier lower. In my mind superstars are like the top 6 players
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