or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Culture › Entertainment, Culture, and Sports › NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1334

post #19996 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by diadem View Post

I guess the argument for not overspending would be the 2004 Pistons or this year's Hawks (they're $20 mil under the cap, I think). Honestly, though, so many things have to go right in order for a situation like those to develop that it's basically a pipe dream for most GM's in the league, let alone our resident StyleForum super GM...Detroit had a Hall of Fame coach in Larry Brown and ATL right now has Mike Budenholzer, who was Popovich's assistant for a long time. Joe Dumars pulled off some ridiculous transactions in order to assemble that '04 Detroit roster. I don't remember the exact details (you can probably find them in an old Bill Simmons article), but at least one or two of Dumars' trades were on that Paul Gasol for Kwame Brown level of highway robbery. Basically, it's easier to spend $$$$ to assemble a good roster (cue idfnl chiming in and saying it's not that hard to replicate ATL's formula and that he can do it in a hearbeat if he were given the opportunity).


Pay players fairly. Develop a deep roster. Don't give up draft picks. Draft and sign high character guys that play smart basketball and whose game will transition well with age. Avoid guys with significant injury histories. Don't get caught up in superstar mentality, you'll eventually draft one into a quality roster.

I think the hardest aspect is bringing in the right coach to manage the moving pieces. If I had my choice, it would be Brad Stevens.
post #19997 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

I should have listened, I don't know why but the trap is strong!

No it's not. You're just verbose.

Cue Neo.
post #19998 of 27236
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

No it's not. You're just verbose.

Cue Neo.


Or it just takes more effort for you to understand things but still don't because you don't know anything about basketball?

Yeah I'll go with that.

Not my fault that you might part illiterate.

Then again you can't reason with trolls so...
post #19999 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post


Brooke Lopez, J Johnson and Deron Williams weren't max guys per se either (I think they're max). DJ is an injury away from being a massive albatross,

Er, yes. But so are LBJ, Curry, Duncan, Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Durant, and Harden.

If you're going to say someone who (as was pointed out earier in the thread) has been one of the most durable players in the league isn't a max player because of the theoretical possibility that you wouldn't get your money's worth if he gets injured, then there are no max contracts. In fact, you should not be paying anyone more than the league minimum.
post #20000 of 27236
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Er, yes. But so are LBJ, Curry, Duncan, Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Durant, and Harden.

If you're going to say someone who (as was pointed out earier in the thread) has been one of the most durable players in the league isn't a max player because of the theoretical possibility that you wouldn't get your money's worth if he gets injured, then there are no max contracts. In fact, you should not be paying anyone more than the league minimum.


He wouldn't pay durable players and he wouldn't pay players who has been hurt before (Curry, Griffin, Durant, ADavis, MJ, etc...).


Hmm...
post #20001 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Or it just takes more effort for you to understand things but still don't because you don't know anything about basketball?

Yeah I'll go with that.

Not my fault that you might part illiterate.

Then again you can't reason with trolls so...

I understand reasons for overpaying just fine. I just don't agree with the groupthink on the topic. Calling me a troll is easy.
post #20002 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Er, yes. But so are LBJ, Curry, Duncan, Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Durant, and Harden.

If you're going to say someone who (as was pointed out earier in the thread) has been one of the most durable players in the league isn't a max player because of the theoretical possibility that you wouldn't get your money's worth if he gets injured, then there are no max contracts. In fact, you should not be paying anyone more than the league minimum.

My view on DeAndre was not based on the potential for injury. It was based on the fact that he doesn't have a complete offensive game. I made side points, but this was the main one.
post #20003 of 27236
Yes, I realize that wasn't your only point. But it's one you raised. And I was pointing out that that side point makes no sense whatsoever because it's not particular to him -- it's a risk that applies to all players, and if history is any indication, less to him than some others.
post #20004 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

My view on DeAndre was not based on the potential for injury. It was based on the fact that he doesn't have a complete offensive game. I made side points, but this was the main one.
C.A.N.N.O.T..R.E.S.I.S.T ... So if you don't pay DJ because of his offensive weaknesses (though he's got the highest field goal percentage in nba history right now and averages double figures), do you feel the same about offensive players who are only slightly better-than-mediocre defensive players? Or is it your argument that only players who are at elite levels both offensively and defensively (and who are injury-proof) deserve consideration.
I would argue (maybe I have, that seems like a long time ago), that Jordan is a defensive game changer in a way that I don't remember seeing in a very long time.
post #20005 of 27236
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

Calling me a troll is true easy.





Look, I've been saying there are only a handful who deserves max contract and that is why I got a talking about Kawhi earlier in the season but even I cannot understand your logic and in your supposed magical powers to tell the future.

You can't make one example, like future injuries ending a career, exclusive to certain players only, that makes absolutely no sense. Especially on the players that has played the most consecutive games in the league today, you are going against your criteria of injury-history and age. Everyone in the NBA has a chance to have a season ending and career ending injury, there is no way to predict it.


Again if you aren't going to sign the most durable players and won't sign those who has had an injury before, then who the hell is left?


And again, you won't sign Curry, Griffin, George, ADavis and MJ by your logic. Or anyone else who is healthy because they are essentially all one injury away from ending their career.
post #20006 of 27236
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

C.A.N.N.O.T..R.E.S.I.S.T ... So if you don't pay DJ because of his offensive weaknesses (though he's got the highest field goal percentage in nba history right now and averages double figures), do you feel the same about offensive players who are only slightly better-than-mediocre defensive players? Or is it your argument that only players who are at elite levels both offensively and defensively (and who are injury-proof) deserve consideration.
I would argue (maybe I have, that seems like a long time ago), that Jordan is a defensive game changer in a way that I don't remember seeing in a very long time.



Not to mention that Deandre was 3rd in DPoY voting last year and most are calling him the #1 candidate this year.
post #20007 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

Pay players fairly. Develop a deep roster. Don't give up draft picks. Draft and sign high character guys that play smart basketball and whose game will transition well with age. Avoid guys with significant injury histories. Don't get caught up in superstar mentality, you'll eventually draft one into a quality roster.

I think the hardest aspect is bringing in the right coach to manage the moving pieces. If I had my choice, it would be Brad Stevens.
 
So basically, you'd avoid Steph Curry like the plague because of his bum ankle and Boogie Cousins because he's not one of the "high character guys" you covet so dearly...ok.

And honestly, how can you say all that and be so vehemently against tanking? How else would you position your team to draft superstars? You're just gonna find them in the middle/bottom of the first round? Or in the second round? LOL (the only players I can think of who were drafted in the 2nd round and are actually doing something in the league are Chandler Parsons and Isaiah Thomas). Or you're just gonna swindle other teams into giving you unprotected first-rounders? FYI, it's a lot harder to do in real life than in NBA 2K.

So no tanking, no trading away picks, no signing free agents to big contracts...you're just gonna grow your team organically? Like, you're gonna walk into the owner's office and outline a 10-year plan for turning your team into a dynasty. Oh, and the owner can't fire you before your 10 years are up because this is a process and dynasties aren't built overnight. Yeah, I'd love to see that...
post #20008 of 27236
yall don't learn
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Not to mention that Deandre was 3rd in DPoY voting last year and most are calling him the #1 candidate this year.
i havent really thought about that but "most" can't be right...maybe around LA lol.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2335639-ranking-midseason-contenders-for-the-2015-nba-defensive-player-of-the-year-award

bleacher report isn't very good but they dont even mention him in the top 7. i don't know if i'd go that far but LAC is middle of the pack defensively and ppl are shooting 49.3% against him at the rim as opposed to 41 for bogut, 40 for serge, and 37 for THE STEIFFEL TOWER (gobert for life)
post #20009 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Yes, I realize that wasn't your only point. But it's one you raised. And I was pointing out that that side point makes no sense whatsoever because it's not particular to him -- it's a risk that applies to all players, and if history is any indication, less to him than some others.

The point was that paying guys max eats up cap space for a more complete team. Obviously the injury risk is for every player, but when you eat up cap space overpaying players you lose flexibility to make responsible moves in response to a season ender like Paul George.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

C.A.N.N.O.T..R.E.S.I.S.T ...

Oh stop. Your responding because it's substantive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

So if you don't pay DJ because of his offensive weaknesses (though he's got the highest field goal percentage in nba history right now and averages double figures), do you feel the same about offensive players who are only slightly better-than-mediocre defensive players? Or is it your argument that only players who are at elite levels both offensively and defensively (and who are injury-proof) deserve consideration.
I would argue (maybe I have, that seems like a long time ago), that Jordan is a defensive game changer in a way that I don't remember seeing in a very long time.

He gets lots of putback dunks and never creates a shot. Credit the guy for knowing his role.

It's the latter. Guys that have a complete game at an elite level that are durable and whose game will age well deserve a max. I think Bill Russell is the best example I can give. Smart, durable, offense, defense, game ages well. Motombo was a monster rim protector, but it's not enough to warrant a max deal, D Jordan is the same type of guy.
post #20010 of 27236
well, at least we agree that bill russell probably would have deserved a max contract.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
Styleforum › Forums › Culture › Entertainment, Culture, and Sports › NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread