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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 133

post #1981 of 27250
Clippers baby Clippers
post #1982 of 27250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post
Hard to say, I think Bynums offense isn't that great, especially compared to Howards. Howard has greatly improved with Olajuwons help this past summer, I've actually seen Dwight do fade away jump shots and make it. Bynums a monster on defense but his offense repertoire isn't that great. To be honest, I'd put Pau ahead of Bynum. Pau might be soft at times but he can affect shots and his versatility in offense more than makes up for it. Al Horford is right there Bynum too, considering he is much smaller at 6'10", dude can defend well and again more versatile offensively. Kevin Love, he does play center at times. Boozer, Aldridge and Nene are good candidates as well.

For true centers, well there really isn't much out there these days so obviously with such a thin herd Bynum can easily be picked as the second best true center. I think he just compliments Pau really well, he makes a big difference when those two stand together but take out Pau and you see the Lakers deficiency on offense. Bogut comes to mind for a true center that can challenge Bynum for second place.

First of all, Bynum has way more moves with Howard in the post. I mean really watch them both..Bynum's footwork is amazing, he knows how to gather and pump fake. Howard, even this season, just uses his speed and jumping ability to get by people and dunk. That's about it. I'll give him the bank shot that he developed which Bynum doesn't have, but it's still not enough for me to say he's better offensively than Bynum. Don't let the points per game fool you..really watch their technique.

As for the debate, I'm talking true centers, which rules out guys like Aldridge and Horford and especially Amar'e who HRoi mentioned. There are very few true centers in the game who play big minutes. Pau is not a real center either.

Here are some options: Marc Gasol, Al Jefferson, Nene, Perkins.

Marc Gasol and Perkins are nowhere near Bynum offensively. They are good defensively though.

Nene has shown a lot on the offensive end this season, but isn't really a shot blocker or intimidator on the defensive end.

If I had to pick someone near the level of Bynum on both ends it would be Al Jefferson. He has lots of moves on the block, and changes a lot of shots. But even he is undersized as a center. Howard makes Al look small. And Bynum next to Howard makes Howard look small.
post #1983 of 27250
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post
it's a good question. if you'd count Amare Stoudemire (admittedly a part-time center) then he's got my vote.

of the guys who actually start at center, i'd say Al Horford and Al Jefferson are better than Bynum on a per game basis. if you consider that Bynum has only played 40 games this season so far, then i'd take 60-something games of Brook Lopez and Marc Gasol instead.

actually if Lopez hadn't regressed so much in rebounding he'd be a lock for me as the 2nd best true center in the L

Excellent points.
post #1984 of 27250
Quote:
Originally Posted by sexandcandy View Post
First of all, Bynum has way more moves with Howard in the post. I mean really watch them both..Bynum's footwork is amazing, he knows how to gather and pump fake. Howard, even this season, just uses his speed and jumping ability to get by people and dunk. That's about it. I'll give him the bank shot that he developed which Bynum doesn't have, but it's still not enough for me to say he's better offensively than Bynum. Don't let the points per game fool you..really watch their technique.

As for the debate, I'm talking true centers, which rules out guys like Aldridge and Horford and especially Amar'e who HRoi mentioned. There are very few true centers in the game who play big minutes. Pau is not a real center either.

Here are some options: Marc Gasol, Al Jefferson, Nene, Perkins.

Marc Gasol and Perkins are nowhere near Bynum offensively. They are good defensively though.

Nene has shown a lot on the offensive end this season, but isn't really a shot blocker or intimidator on the defensive end.

If I had to pick someone near the level of Bynum on both ends it would be Al Jefferson. He has lots of moves on the block, and changes a lot of shots. But even he is undersized as a center. Howard makes Al look small. And Bynum next to Howard makes Howard look small.

I see your point, I am just not sure how to define a "true center" these days. In the end was the trade was about guys that GMS would trade for to play the 5 spot I think HRoi has good points if you look at 5's. But your original message was that you would not trade Bynum for any of 5's except Howard, right.

I tend to think that the Lakers will agree with you. Heat not doing well, Bulls still a year away? Celtics could not beat Lakers last year without bigger guys and they don;t have them right now. So that leaves Spurs as biggest obstacle? I would think they like their chances with bynum.
post #1985 of 27250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post
Clippers Baby Clippers!!!

Led by 20 against Boston, Celtics comes back but they are holding on in that lead. Jordan, the worst ft shooter in the league sinks in 2 clutch free throws that should seal this game! Deandre Jordan on clutch time > Lebron!

it was a nice win. I was expecting a dunk fest by griffin (considering how thin the C's front line is now). Looks like they made out like gangbusters with the perkins trade (considering the injuries to robinson and perk). I guess the only silver lining with that win was there was only one griffin dunk the whole game.

clippers look legit if they can get healthy and mo williams finally realizes that he's no longer on the Cavs .

kristic seems like a great fit, and is playing his ass off really using rondo/pierce to his advantage - they actually do a nice pick/screen and roll in traffic where kristic is a "decoy" 3rd option but rondo lobs it in for a dunk. the guy has great hands and you can see he has a look on his face like: "wait..you guys really want me to score a lot?" and Doc/rondo/pierce/KG's reactions are "yeah motherfucker score 30 if you can!"

green though seems like he has the yips. he cant really get good offense going and is forced to take some tough shots.

my theory is that the celtics are doing a diluted version of last year... they are just sitting shaq on purpose and will do so until the late rounds of the playoffs. its still scary with them running 8-9man rosters for the last two weeks though.
post #1986 of 27250
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVaguy View Post
Howard has a legit beef

No he doesn't. its not that hard to avoid getting technical fouls.

Warriors baby warriors.
post #1987 of 27250
knicks baby knicks
post #1988 of 27250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post
it was a nice win. I was expecting a dunk fest by griffin (considering how thin the C's front line is now). Looks like they made out like gangbusters with the perkins trade (considering the injuries to robinson and perk). I guess the only silver lining with that win was there was only one griffin dunk the whole game.

Yah but gave up like what, 8 dunks to Jordan? They let him score 21 points.
post #1989 of 27250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sexandcandy View Post
First of all, Bynum has way more moves with Howard in the post. I mean really watch them both..Bynum's footwork is amazing, he knows how to gather and pump fake. Howard, even this season, just uses his speed and jumping ability to get by people and dunk. That's about it. I'll give him the bank shot that he developed which Bynum doesn't have, but it's still not enough for me to say he's better offensively than Bynum. Don't let the points per game fool you..really watch their technique.


I think you're giving Bynums offense too much credit, I've seen his techniques, it isn't as sound as you make it seem. He can pump fake and then dunk over the defense but that is all his moves. Howard has greatly improved on offense and yes, he does rely on his speed and strength but that is what makes him talented. You think if Kobe weren't as athletic as he was he'd be where he is right now? The same with Lebron, if he isn't build like that you think he can bully and derail defense as he drives to the basket? That is part of what makes them a good player, you can't take that away from them. Bynum is still slow, a slower and less athletic version of Shaq really, probably because of all the injuries he's had already. I give him credit for doing what he can since the offense isn't ran through him but I don't think he is very skilled on offense, not as much as you say at least. Offensively, I'd probably put Bogut ahead of him, I'd definitely put Kaman way in front of him. Defensively, I'd put him above those 2 but only a notch higher than Bogut. At this point, Bynum is still about potential, he still isn't very consistent and haven't played a whole season.
post #1990 of 27250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post
Yah but gave up like what, 8 dunks to Jordan? They let him score 21 points.
is jordan good or was he just having a flukey great night? most of those dunks were offensive rebound putbacks where the defense collapsed on a player driving in and then missing a weird floater (which gives those weird 5-10ft rebounds). Even the clipper shooters were having a stellar shooting night hitting totally contested shots. that was definitely why they traded baron... if baron saw gomes hitting threes he'd think: "yeah watch me, I can hit contested 3 pointers too!!!" and then let the celtics right back into the game before the end of the half.
post #1991 of 27250
c'mon, i think that's a bit harsh. so ok, as a third-year player his numbers aren't as good as wilt's and kareem's. i don't think anybody's painting him as the next superstar (of course, I don't live up north ... maybe it's different up there). i like this game. he works really, really hard. he's like a more physically gifted chuck hayes. he'll almost certainly never be an all-time great, but he's having a heckuva year, so let him enjoy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by venessian View Post
Why the hell are the media making such a big deal about Kevin Love and his 52 consecutive double-doubles? I like Love, but this is a bit much.

OK, 52 consecutive d-ds is a post-merger record but who really cares?

Hayes had 55, which Love will probably break. Wilt had 227, which Love will not break.

Plus, who cares about consecutive, really? That's a bit meaningles. So a guy got 9 boards instead of 10 one night, or went to the bench early. Big deal.

They can elevate Love when he does this:
Baylor averaged a double-double for an entire season 9 times.
Russell averaged a double-double for an entire season 12 times.
Kareem averaged a double-double for an entire season 12 times.
Wilt averaged a double-double for an entire season all 14 of his seasons, and he had 10 seasons where he averaged at least 20b-20p and 7 where he went 20b-30p.
Plus, Wilt had 10,000+ ladies, which I just don't see Love doing despite his name.
post #1992 of 27250
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post
is jordan good or was he just having a flukey great night? most of those dunks were offensive rebound putbacks where the defense collapsed on a player driving in and then missing a weird floater (which gives those weird 5-10ft rebounds). Even the clipper shooters were having a stellar shooting night hitting totally contested shots.

that was definitely why they traded baron... if baron saw gomes hitting threes he'd think: "yeah watch me, I can hit contested 3 pointers too!!!" and then let the celtics right back into the game before the end of the half.

This. The Clips were lights out offensively for 3 quarters. The defense was there but it didn't matter
post #1993 of 27250
post #1994 of 27250
i don't think bynum is where howard is. but i do think he plays more under control his footwork is amazing. he plays on a team where he's not called on to display a lot of offensive moves (probably #4 on the laker pecking order ... kobe, gasol, odom). defensively, he's playing amazing since the all-star break. he's double- and triple-jumping and altering shots all over the place. he's the cornerstone of what is probably the best defense in the nba over the last month ... their whole strategy is to funnel the offense into the paint and let drew swat. and he's 23.
post #1995 of 27250
Quote:
Originally Posted by phreak View Post
This. The Clips were lights out offensively for 3 quarters. The defense was there but it didn't matter

i think the clips are coming on. which is not to say they won't blow it. they've had several games against good teams this year where they led into the fourth quarter but couldn't hang on. this is one of the most snake-bit franchises in the nba and it's going to take them a while to learn how to win.
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