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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1239

post #18571 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Kobe isn't really that great with creating shots for others and he already has plenty of turnovers on his hand by himself. And his teammates doesn't rotate or create open shots when Kobe is being double or triple teamed.

Kobe tries to be a playmaker but once the player misses open shots or just blows the play, he gets impatient and just takes the shot himself.

Plus most already expect him to shoot anyways so when he all of a sudden passes them the other player fumbles or just messes up and Kobe yells at them anyways. lol8[1].gif




they don't need to rotate or create open shots when kobe is being double or triple teamed. they're already open since their man left to guard kobe. it's up to kobe to recognize that and pass
post #18572 of 27247
Thread Starter 
Eh, that isn't always the case though. Most of the time the guy int eh corner buries himself deep and just enough that there is a guy in between to make a clear pass.

There are definitely certain plays there where dudes do not move and just stand around.

But again, this has been the case for several years now, I am more surprised that more of are surprised Kobe has been doing this. There is a reason it is called "Kobe Ball" here for years now.
post #18573 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Eh, that isn't always the case though. Most of the time the guy int eh corner buries himself deep and just enough that there is a guy in between to make a clear pass.

There are definitely certain plays there where dudes do not move and just stand around.

But again, this has been the case for several years now, I am more surprised that more of are surprised Kobe has been doing this. There is a reason it is called "Kobe Ball" here for years now.

there's a really simple solution to the guy in between. it's to pass to the guy up top who has the angle to make the clean pass. it's called the hockey assist. it won't show up in regular stats tho so if you're lance stephenson you probably don't like that pass. kobe should be pretty familiar with that because that's what the triangle is really good at. passing to the guy who has a clean passing lane to the guy on the low block or an open guy on the weak side (because they're in a triangle)

theres other ways to get to the corner guy

spurs run something called the hammer. ball handler gets to the baseline and whips the ball to the opposite corner down the baseline. manu even jumps out of bounds and make the pass in the air to the corner guy



the guy in between is not a defensible excuse for not passing to the open man


to be honest tho it's not all Kobe's fault. it's Byron Scott for not teaching Kobe and the lakers properly. but it is kind of Kobe's fault because after 30 years in the league he should know better
post #18574 of 27247
I doubt anyone on the Lakers has the ball handling to even think about attempting that pass. I've actually seen a few players try it this year. Most of the passes are deflected out of bounds by the opposing team.
post #18575 of 27247
Now that we mention it, Kawhi would be a great fit on the Heat nod[1].gif
post #18576 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Version 7 View Post

I doubt anyone on the Lakers has the ball handling to even think about attempting that pass. I've actually seen a few players try it this year. Most of the passes are deflected out of bounds by the opposing team.
athis really is one of the sorriest collections in the nba. jordan hill and linn would be good bench players on most teams. the rest of them might not even make a squad. it's like Kobe and D-League.
post #18577 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Version 7 View Post

I doubt anyone on the Lakers has the ball handling to even think about attempting that pass. I've actually seen a few players try it this year. Most of the passes are deflected out of bounds by the opposing team.

generally it works if you're double teamed because if you get double teamed on the side it's usually the help man on the opposite side of the lane that comes off the corner guy. spurs make it better by adding a back screen for the guy on the wing who then runs down to the corner as the ball handler also runs to the baseline.

anyways, that's a cool wrinkle that most teams dont do. by far the normal way is to pass the ball around the perimeter if you get double teamed.

also its not about the ball handling. if you can handle the ball to the baseline and make a pass you can do it. it's more about whether the wing guy and the screening big knows its coming which is a coaching issue not a personnel issue



i dunno. lin and hill are decent starters and lin more so than hill

i think you guys are underrating the lakers personnel. ed davis was a quality pick up. xavier henry and nick young had pretty good seasons last year. i think it's more of a coaching issue than anything.



i thought it was funny how byron scott tried to portray himself as a defensive minded coach, only all his teams rank top 3 worst in defensive efficiency. he cant coach either defense or offense
post #18578 of 27247
Thread Starter 
That is up to the coach to tell the other players to stand or go to a certain spot and to tell Kobe that someone is open at a certain spot on certain plays. At times when Kobe gets the ball and makes a move, some players just plants themselves to the short 3 and very close to the baseline making the pass really difficult or another player runs to the paint to try and get rebounds or some just do not move at all so the defender can semi-help on Kobe and the angle is skewed enough that a clean pass isn't clear cut.

Got to keep in mind that they aren't playing with the triangle system anymore so the other players aren't keen to where to go. Doesn't help that Scott doesn't encourage 3-point shooting and still doesn't consider it a huge part of the game.

Not really defending Kobes shot selections or liberty to just chuck it up as much as he wants because it is in fact atrocious but I have been yelling on my tv set for years now for other players to get open when Kobe is doubled or actually move and it doesn't happen as often as I have hoped. There are also many cases that the guy he passes the ball to just misses. Right now the team doesn't have Meeks, Blake or Swaggy P that can consistently make 3s (again Scott doesn't believe in 3 pointers being an integral part of the game so he wasn't worried with filling the court with 3-pt shooters in the off-season).

I've also seen Kobe try and make a pass and results in a turnover, happens often on a drive too when he just drops it off to the open big guy on the paint. Not as bad as Lin who over commits but it can look ugly there too then Kobe would whine for a foul.


But Kobe chucking up shots when there is someone open definitely happens way more often than one would want, no denying that. I do think he just gets frustrated when the other players miss when he finally passes the ball to them and they're open. He just doesn't trust anyone like he could trust someone like Fisher. He is an even grouchier old man lately.
post #18579 of 27247
Yeah, wasn't meaning to pile on the Lakers, just seems like a tricky pass regardless of the personnel that's all. It's a guy running towards the outside, literally whipping the ball around 3-4 players (often with their hands extended resulting in potential turnovers). Sure, it doesnt require AI handling but that's hard to pull off
post #18580 of 27247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
i think you guys are underrating the lakers personnel. ed davis was a quality pick up. xavier henry and nick young had pretty good seasons last year. i think it's more of a coaching issue than anything.


Henry and Swaggy P is a result of being on an empty team.. I mean this was the Lakers bench last year and this wasn't on some halftime break. lol8[1].gif




Henry is athletic but that is really it, he would be buried in the bench in any other team. And all jest aside, Swaggy P is a a poor mans Jamal Crawford, he is a good scorer off the bench when you need it but I wouldn't say he is starter quality the way he plays. The Lakers also had that d-league pg that average closed to double digit in assist just because the Lakers are so depleted but no one is going out of their way to sign him just because he was just good on a very bad team.
post #18581 of 27247
that picture you posted isn't because the lakers bench was bad (and my point was lakers bench isn't completely terrible). it was because everybody was injured (and injuries happen to good players too). i feel like you're trying to defend kobe's decisions by blaming everybody else on the lakers, but kobe isn't the solution. he's a big part of the problem. he's the one making decisions on court



i feel like you're not reading my posts or if you are you're not acknowledging the point i make

it's not just up to the coach. even if people know which spot to go to it's up to kobe to recognize the open player and he regularly doesnt. if he's getting double or triple teamed like you say then there is an open man or two somewhere on the floor. it's not like all the lakers are all right next to kobe as he gets double/triple teamed.

i've already mentioned a few times how kobe can get the ball to the open player if his passing lane isn't clear. i even pointed out a way to get the ball to open players that works even better if they're in the short 3 and very close to the baseline


you're trying to argue it's not kobe's fault the open man doesnt get the ball. it's not completely his fault, but it is partly maybe even mostly his fault


byron scott also doesn't get to choose the players they hire. remember he got hired in the summer too.

also an open shot by a role player is way better than a closely contested shot by kobe. wesley johnson, lin, henry, kelly can all make 3 pointers at an above average rate. kobe is shooting 40% on the field right now which is like kemba level bad. pretty much an open shot by any other player is a more efficient shot.
post #18582 of 27247
byron is just the right coach if your goal is to protect your lottery position/pick.
post #18583 of 27247
well kyrie and dion, not good.

Love and LeBron look visibly pissed, i'd be shocked if waiters survives the trade deadline. kyrie misses or ignored more open men than any pg i can think of, westbrook included. the offense looks terrible. they can still win the east but i hope lebron is just trying to prove a point.
post #18584 of 27247
i think it was actually intentional by the owners/gm

they needed a fall guy they can blame their woes on while they secretly tank. and clearly it cant be kobe although lakers fans will defend no matter how crappy he is


like there's no way you hire one of the worst defensive coaches as a defensive minded coach or put a bid for freaking carlos boozer if you actually have some kind of aspiration for good basketball


rockets are shooting more threes than last year. they took 2 mid range shots against the heats. they're basically turning into the rio grande valley vipers, but somehow they're outscoring and outdefending all their opponents
post #18585 of 27247
Yeah, watching the replay of the Rockets-Heat game on NBATV right now. It's raining 3s
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