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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1234

post #18496 of 27206
MJ would have averaged 50!

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post #18497 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnFacconable View Post


For example, Carmelo last season shot 56% within 3 feet, 33% from 4-9 ft, 46% from 10-15 feet, 44% 16+ ft 2s, 42% on 3's. He shot 33% on corner 3's. 31% of his shots were 16+ ft 2's and 23% were 3's. You tell me - as a Knicks fan do you wish he were able to take more 3's in exchange for fewer long 2's?

well I wouldn't want him taking corner 3's and before I would say that he should shoot more threes overall, I'd like to see how him doing that effects the flow of the offensive system, what that means for our defensive transition and offensive rebounding. Simply saying, he shoots 42% on 3's and he should shoot more 3's is incomplete to me.
post #18498 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

MJ would have averaged 50!

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leave MJ alone!
post #18499 of 27206
BTW, I am not debating the findings of that article, and if I was a coach and came across that, I would probably set up a few plays to take advantage of that. And the author doesn't come out and say, teams should take tons of corner 3's but I just find it lazy that he doesn't think to write about why the corner 3 may be the most unguarded shot on the floor and that it would probably be better guarded if it becomes a big part of team offenses. Also, I think for some stats, using league averages gives you a distorted view of the data, or at the least, shows you data that is not actionable for some teams/players (the carmelo shooting 33% from the corner for example).
post #18500 of 27206
Your response is incomplete too. Everything is always incomplete. I should also note that Carmelo took only 18 corner 3's so he doesn't love the shot but it was still more efficient than a long 2 for him.

As for how it fits into their offensive flow, all I can do is laugh. How many of those long 2's come out of ISOs? With 4 spectators. He is smartly jacking up more 3's later in his career. He should keep doing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

well I wouldn't want him taking corner 3's and before I would say that he should shoot more threes overall, I'd like to see how him doing that effects the flow of the offensive system, what that means for our defensive transition and offensive rebounding. Simply saying, he shoots 42% on 3's and he should shoot more 3's is incomplete to me.
post #18501 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnFacconable View Post

For example, Carmelo last season shot 56% within 3 feet, 33% from 4-9 ft, 46% from 10-15 feet, 44% 16+ ft 2s, 42% on 3's.
not wishing to enter into the whole analytics argument, but i've heard this a lot about the inefficiency of the midrange jumper (33% from 4-9 feet, 44% from 10 feet out). a simple reading of this would indicate that you shouldn't shoot from 4 to 9 feet. but when you think about it for a minute, that's almost certainly an effect of more contested shots in that zone rather than anything else.
post #18502 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

not wishing to enter into the whole analytics argument, but i've heard this a lot about the inefficiency of the midrange jumper (33% from 4-9 feet, 44% from 10 feet out). a simple reading of this would indicate that you shouldn't shoot from 4 to 9 feet. but when you think about it for a minute, that's almost certainly an effect of more contested shots in that zone rather than anything else.

I think that's right foodguy. Carmelo doesn't really shoot from 4-9 feet very much - just 5% of his shots came from there.
post #18503 of 27206
So if Carmelo finds himself exactly 9 feet from the basket, he should always make sure he backs up a step before shooting laugh.gif
post #18504 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

Durant is one of the best shooting 3s of all time who can slide into the 4 spot with ease.

Really a stretch 4 means that the slow big guarding the 4 has to step out far to the perimeter opening up lanes. Thunders can use durant as a stretch 4 but they prefer to put him as a tall 3 with ibaka and a center.


Watched blazers warriors today. There were several terrible fucking calls. Like three times balls clearly went out of bounds off a warriors players on first look and replays but it went to warriors. Then the very last important out of bounds call in favor of warriors they get it right

Last 40 seconds was so painful. Some terribly lazy passes. Also that last Wesley Matthews pumping had me rolling.

http://vine.co/v/OODF7gQXIAY

Goddamn Blake can't keep his guy in front of him and so klay dunks on Lopez.

Then I checked fantasy and realized I never set my line for the day so instead of going 7-2 or 8-1 I went 5-4 frown.gif

Also all the damn warrior fans were Asians with big horn rim glasses

durant's only glaring weakness is absolutely no post up game. none.
post #18505 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnFacconable View Post

You guys act like analytics is something that happens in a vacuum or is somehow exclusive. Analytics are used by teams and players to make better informed decisions. Not meant to replace coaching or scouting. It's clear that some teams should be smarter about how they use analytics. It's not clear that any team has failed due to relying too heavily, but I'm sure there will be examples. You can't take 5 low volume efficient scorers and expect to field a team.

Teams are staffing up very aggressively in this area and the playing field will be level in a few years. Right now there are still some dinosaurs out there and they will underperform until they adapt or are forced into retirement. This goes for front offices, coaches and players.

I understand why some of you are hostile to the analytics when it doesn't comport with yor thinking (I was that way in a few respects a few years ago) but the value is in how you adopt and apply the tools to your situation. It's not a one size fits all solution but ignoring data entirely is an instant failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

as a knicks fan, ed, i'm sure you realize that the knicks best season in the past 15 years happened mostly from tons of 3s coming off of lots of ball movement and carmelo being dominant at the 4.
seriously this is the definition of straw man...can you name a single member of team management or even a single espn/yahoo/whatever analyst that does this? even if you think that people like me don't watch games (which is blatantly false), those people shouldn't matter at all to you because they don't affect the way a team is structured or strategy whatsoever.
honest question: what is a big mistake about the stretch 4?
the most successful teams in the last 5 years: spurs employed boris diaw as a stretch 4, the heat took off when they put in battier and james at the 4, serge ibaka is a great mid-range shooter, and dirk is the best-known stretch 4 in nba history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

i don't really understand people who are anti-advanced stats...obviously you never want people who don't watch games and just look at stats...but those people just don't exist. this exists in football too, and pro-stats ppl there always just say: advanced stats are just more information. why would you willingly turn down more information that could be helpful to winning games? this doesn't need to be done at the expense of watching games.

re: popovich
of course duncan is the cornerstone of that franchise. but the spurs don't go ANYWHERE if they aren't one of the most innovative franchises in the league. take a look at the twolves, w/ garnett being probably almost as good as duncan, and never making it anywhere there. the spurs were the 1st ones to tap into international markets, and they have a huge stats department. they were the first ones to realize the efficiencies of a corner 3, and they're the 1st ones to realize the benefits of resting players during the regular season. all of that stuff goes hand in hand with being open to advanced stats.
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There's some beautiful unintentional irony here. You guys act all butt hurt and complain about straw men and being pigeonholed as people who only look at stats and never watch games (was that ever said anywhere outside of your own posts?) and then turn around and start making a straw man caricature of anyone who might suggests that the conclusions to be drawn from the analytics might not be as obvious or unitary as you suggest. Hilarious. Who is saying that one should "willing turn down more information that could be helpful to winning games?" I'm pretty sure everyone here would agree that having access to as much data as possible is a good thing -- even if not everyone would agree about how best to utilize that data.
post #18506 of 27206
This thread puts the "anal" in analytics
post #18507 of 27206
With edmorel, it's a matter of "when" not "if."
post #18508 of 27206
..
Edited by idfnl - 11/10/14 at 6:05am
post #18509 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

Someone should have told MJ, Dirk, Parker and Rip to shoot threeball instead because what they are doing is horribly inefficient
cmon dude long twos have their place in the game! It's closer, some people don't even have that good range(parker/rip) so they are better off shooting twos.

i have no idea who you're trying to argue against, but i've said several times that literally nobody is saying they're horribly inefficient and are better off shooting 3s. the amount of consistent strawmans is mind boggling
post #18510 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

rolleyes.gif
There's some beautiful unintentional irony here.

This was all you needed to say. It goes both ways.
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