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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1204

post #18046 of 27206
I agree with the klove point for whatevr reason the owner never liked appreciated his talent. Even from the beginning there was tension and stupid comments to te media how klove isn't that great, not worth it etc. What a fuxk

Rubio + gasol bros or ibaka or ..?
post #18047 of 27206
The younger gasol bro will give you a big up in assists. Marc has more assists than half the point guards.

Al Jefferson or horford. Horford if you can swing it. Ibakas blocks are awesome but he's average or below average in every other category. At the level of big you need some points would also be good. I think somebody like Lopez might drop low enough too with injuries. Just need rebounds from somebody else.

http://hoopshype.com/columns/david-nurse/how-to-fix-ricky-rubios-shot

This dude is a shooting coach and all he can say is Rubio doesn't have enough confidence and needs a floater sarcasm.gif

His shot is fixable. He has the same problem as kawhi when he started out (release point too low). He doesn't get enough elevation for a two motion shot. He also jumps straight up and down which is related to his elevation.

Minny should hire away engelland

Bobcats supposedly worked hard on hendersons and mkg's shot but all season long MKGs been shooting with his elbow sideways across his chest and the ball goes out sideways. Never seen such a terrible shot. Hopefully they hired a new coach.
post #18048 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

The younger gasol bro will give you a big up in assists. Marc has more assists than half the point guards.

Al Jefferson or horford. Horford if you can swing it. Ibakas blocks are awesome but he's average or below average in every other category. At the level of big you need some points would also be good. I think somebody like Lopez might drop low enough too with injuries. Just need rebounds from somebody else.

http://hoopshype.com/columns/david-nurse/how-to-fix-ricky-rubios-shot

This dude is a shooting coach and all he can say is Rubio doesn't have enough confidence and needs a floater sarcasm.gif

His shot is fixable. He has the same problem as kawhi when he started out (release point too low). He doesn't get enough elevation for a two motion shot. He also jumps straight up and down which is related to his elevation.

Minny should hire away engelland

Bobcats supposedly worked hard on hendersons and mkg's shot but all season long MKGs been shooting with his elbow sideways across his chest and the ball goes out sideways. Never seen such a terrible shot. Hopefully they hired a new coach.
Seriously doubt anyone would be able to hire away Engelland, even for tons of $$.

Lol the Bobcats shooting coach is Mark Price. Poor MKG. Pretty sure his shot is just screwed for life.confused.gif
post #18049 of 27206
The answer to the Love/Rubio question is, of course, because Kahn. This is the guy who drafted three PG's in one year, none of which was Steph Curry. And traded away the best one of them before he even played for the wolves
post #18050 of 27206
Everybody is available at a price.

Mark price was a good shooter but he doesn't know what made him a good shooter. I seriously hope he's not helping MKG in the off season

Are you talking about Ty Lawson?

They draft PGs but can't develop them. Whatever happened to Johnny Flynn? He was awesome at Syracuse.
post #18051 of 27206
i get your point about mark price but i dont think you can hold being a great shooter against him like it seems like you are. also, from everything i heard he worked really hard w/ mkg to totally revamp his shot last offseason and then mkg just reverted slowly, then quickly back to the old broke-ass one once the games started.

I don't really think that's accurate (that everybody is available at a price). like dirk was an FA this offseason but he wasn't available at any price. chip engelland has been w/ the spurs for almost a decade and won 3 chips w/ them and probably has an amazing job w/ the most innovative, stable, and approachable colleagues, i don't think he's uprooting to go to minny of all places, even for double the salary. and how much is someone going to poach him away for anyway? the most almost any assistance coach makes is $1 M/yr, and those are the head coaches in training. it's not like anyone is going to pay engelland 750k more than he's currently making.
post #18052 of 27206
Oh I'm not holding it against him. I just don't think he understands what made him a good shooter. Lots of good shooters advocate form that's completely different from what they actually do because that's what they were taught

Youtubed the first video of mkg junpshot

I have no idea what mark price is actually telling him but this is pretty atrocious. That release is just so weird you would think that's the first thing they fixed

Yeah engelland is probably not going to move but coach salaries aren't capped. If I were MJ I'd pay as much as needed to get him.
post #18053 of 27206
yea but it sounds like you're in general saying that being a good shooter is an impediment to being a good shooting coach, doesn't it? unless you know stuff about price specifically, which in case n/m cuz i don't know anything about his coaching other than the mkg tidbit.

like obviously just because you're a great player doesn't mean you'll be a great coach/analyst/gm, in any sport, but i don't think it's a negative. even as a specialized shooting coach, knowledge of the routines and psyches of being an nba player would help make an impact on the student, even if your info isn't 100% optimal. like you can have a good coach that's much better at player development or chemistry or w/e rather than in-game x's and o's.

like i said they tried to totally reformat mkg's jumpshot, but it just didn't take. if i were them i'd be pretty worried that he's just too far gone w/ this jumper and it'll never change appreciably, no matter the coaching. i can't really think of any examples of players w/ totally broken jumpers that overhauled their shots entirely.

i don't think mj or the financially poor bobcats hornets has the extra $$ to throw a million+ at a specialized assistant, but who knows.

actually this subject is kinda interesting to me. i think i really underrate the player development part of basketball. like i expect players to naturally improve over their 1st 3 seasons or so, but i don't really buy expecting anything substantial after that. i think that has to do w/ believing in statistics and flukes too much. like for example, if X player has a randomly really good year from 3, i automatically assume it's a fluke, as opposed to actual solid improvement. that's probably not fair.
post #18054 of 27206
i've seen this video before

I see that this 'coach' is right about some stuff about mechanics of the jumpshot but
its annoying how he says 'he doesn't teach them how to sweep and sway" - idk maybe
because you don't teach that? THe same way you don't teach people to do left, right, left right leg
when running. I don't even know a person who has a jumpshot and lands ideally in the same
place each time, it comes natural.
post #18055 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

yea but it sounds like you're in general saying that being a good shooter is an impediment to being a good shooting coach, doesn't it? unless you know stuff about price specifically, which in case n/m cuz i don't know anything about his coaching other than the mkg tidbit.

like obviously just because you're a great player doesn't mean you'll be a great coach/analyst/gm, in any sport, but i don't think it's a negative. even as a specialized shooting coach, knowledge of the routines and psyches of being an nba player would help make an impact on the student, even if your info isn't 100% optimal. like you can have a good coach that's much better at player development or chemistry or w/e rather than in-game x's and o's.

like i said they tried to totally reformat mkg's jumpshot, but it just didn't take. if i were them i'd be pretty worried that he's just too far gone w/ this jumper and it'll never change appreciably, no matter the coaching. i can't really think of any examples of players w/ totally broken jumpers that overhauled their shots entirely.

i don't think mj or the financially poor bobcats hornets has the extra $$ to throw a million+ at a specialized assistant, but who knows.

actually this subject is kinda interesting to me. i think i really underrate the player development part of basketball. like i expect players to naturally improve over their 1st 3 seasons or so, but i don't really buy expecting anything substantial after that. i think that has to do w/ believing in statistics and flukes too much. like for example, if X player has a randomly really good year from 3, i automatically assume it's a fluke, as opposed to actual solid improvement. that's probably not fair.

I don't think it's a negative at all. You can't be a good shooting coach and not be a good shooter yourself which is why I don't get why a bunch of these fitness coaches are fatasses. Clearly you're not using your own advice. Engelland supposedly is a good shooter. Goldsberry interviewed bonner recently and he has a shooting challenge that engelland won for a year. I do think that being a good shooter and being a good shooting coach isn't a 1:1 correlation.

I thought hornbobcatnets made $8 million last year? Throw some of that engellands way. They've been historically poor but my impression was they turned profit starting the 12-13 season

I'm pretty interested in the player development aspect too. Like I'm curious if Anthony Davis would be where he's now if Monty Williams wasn't there. cuz his staff is really trying to make the brow the best he can be

Yeah I mean I get that they're trying to fix his shot but the interview makes me think they're telling him wrong things and it's making it worse. Really everything else but his release is fine. in that interview it doesn't look like price is even trying to fix his release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

i've seen this video before

I see that this 'coach' is right about some stuff about mechanics of the jumpshot but
its annoying how he says 'he doesn't teach them how to sweep and sway" - idk maybe
because you don't teach that? THe same way you don't teach people to do left, right, left right leg
when running. I don't even know a person who has a jumpshot and lands ideally in the same
place each time, it comes natural.

Yeah but if you keep watching the bballbreakdown guy asks mark price what he thinks of the sweep and sway and he says he doesn't recommend it and that players should jump straight up and down even though mark price himself doesn't do that. So clearly there are shooting coaches out there trying to make you do things that aren't natural. There's some other shooting coach on YouTube advocating the same.

Nobody jumps straight up and down except Rubio not even MKG. Lin used to do it with his legs under him during linsanity and bron used to do it a long time ago but they fixed that.

I don't think the sweep and sway is as natural to most people as running. Some people it comes easy but some people it doesn't. I think it's partly because if you don't get good elevation you don't have enough room to sweep. Like watch harden and curry shoot and they don't get good elevation and their legs don't have enough room to sweep so it almost looks like they come straight down (but really they move forward a little)
post #18056 of 27206
idk, it would seem logical that sweep and sway is more useful to the guys that have poor elevation on jumpshot, as it creates some extra lift
at least it seems to me that it does

tbh i noticed people have their feet turned when they shoot before these vidoes came out, and it's really logical since it makes shooting
way easier to have your elbow pointing directly at the basket when you shoot. Still they are helpful and tbh they helped me become better
shooter.

Anyway i don't think there's a one correct way to shoot for everybody. Like Reggie, Larry, Dirk they have unorthodox shoots but
apparently they feel comfortable shooting that way and it works best for them.
post #18057 of 27206
Almost totally agree with you but a few nitpicks

You can't sweep your feet unless you get enough elevation to get your feet forward tho. The ones without enough elevation barely sweep. Like watch curry shoot. He doesn't get a lot of height and his feet don't really sweep forward (just a little)

Larry and Reggie era I feel like was when people were finally beginning to understand optimal form tho. Larry has a slight hitch and Reggie does a weird hand touching thing. But since that era the best shooters all have extremely similar form without hitch or touching hands. Before Larry it was practically the heave shot.

Dirk has an unorthodox shot only when he doesn't have enough room. When he has room he has a standard sweep but normally he's in the paint raining one legged fadeaways that always go in. Definitely not the normal form tho.

I don't think it's natural but a watched and learned behavior cuz we used to do granny shots in basketball
post #18058 of 27206
i didn't actually watch/listen to most of the video so shog[1].gif

btw mentioning granny shots, what do you think of the idea that analysts occasionally bring up of these horrible FTers (drummond, jordan) shooting a la rick barry used to?
post #18059 of 27206
Rick Barry like the two handed under throw? As in analysts want them to do that?

( I feel like the squaring feet idea got started with the two handed throw cuz that makes sense (ball in the middle of feet line) but a one handed throw needs to be off center. Squaring feet doesn't make sense with a one handed shot)
post #18060 of 27206
yea, the under-handed granny shot. don't remember any specific calls to do that, but i feel like it always comes up when teams are hacking-a-_____. i guess i feel like some players are so far gone that no amount of shot practice or reformatting is gonna appreciably improve their ft% and they might as well do something else, even if it's embarrassing at first.
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