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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1196

post #17926 of 27205
This is probably the most excited I've been about a Knicks season in a long time.
post #17927 of 27205
Thread Starter 
Melo claims he lost weight to fit into the triangle offense better, I guess triangle means no fatties?


How do you guys think that offense will for him/the team?
post #17928 of 27205
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Melo claims he lost weight to fit into the triangle offense better, I guess triangle means no fatties?


How do you guys think that offense will for him/the team?

You may not know this, but I am a big Knicks fan.

If you were to create a player in a lab that would be the ideal fit for the mighty triangle, the player would most likely look like Carmelo. He can handle the ball, score from anywhere on the court, has great size, create his own shot and commands double teams. In a theoretical world, he is a better player to build the triangle from than Kobe and Jordan (and please, before anyone gets their panties bunched up, I am not saying he is better than them, just that his skill set is more ideal for the system). So it looks like he will be a SF next year, which means that many times he will be the initiator on offense (playing the Jordan/Kobe role), which he is perfect for because you have to stay close to him from the minute he gets anywhere near the 3 point line and will command double teams against most SF's in the league. My worry is him going hero ball 100% of the time, but call me a homer or naive but I honestly believe that he will change his game and become the most complete offensive player he has ever been under Jackson/Fisher. I truly believe he wants a chance to bring a championship to NY and he believes that over the next few years the Knicks have a good chance of it, if he plays more like Lebron and less like he did last year. I don't know what it was like in Denver but last year there was no offensive system, other than give him the ball and pray. He was also out of position all season, took a beating all year and averaged like 38 minutes a game. I think he will have his best year with the knicks, maybe his best career year, next year and I expect them in the playoffs.
post #17929 of 27205
He was a pretty good as a 4 tho. I feel like it's better for him but losing weight puts him as a 3
post #17930 of 27205

Yeah, he was sick as a 4.  He was always good at rebounding (an oft-overlooked part of his game...he averaged the most RPG of his career last season) and his 3-pt shooting forced opposing bigs out of the paint.  Doesn't look like he has the size to play the 4-spot anymore, though, unless he's maintained his strength, which is very possible.  Skinny guys can surprise you with that, like Kevin Garnett.

post #17931 of 27205
the problem with him as the 4 is that, by the end of games, he was done. Had nothing left (worse clutch shooting of his career) and I think the triangle flows better with the 2/3 being the one you run the offense through and him at the three gives more time to stats/bargs, which I know sounds like a joke to everyone, but those guys last year (when healthy, which was like 20 games) played well.
post #17932 of 27205
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

I truly believe he wants a chance to bring a championship to NY and he believes that over the next few years the Knicks have a good chance of it.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
giphy.gif

seriously though, carmelo should've went to the bulls. D. Rose looks to be back in elite form, so it would've been nice to actually be in a position to actually have a chance at a championship because you have a good team around you rather than just pay lip service to it.
post #17933 of 27205
Carmelo is a great player, I wish he wins championship with the Knicks
post #17934 of 27205
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

the problem with him as the 4 is that, by the end of games, he was done. Had nothing left (worse clutch shooting of his career) and I think the triangle flows better with the 2/3 being the one you run the offense through and him at the three gives more time to stats/bargs, which I know sounds like a joke to everyone, but those guys last year (when healthy, which was like 20 games) played well.

The triangle generally has the four (or a 5 who can shoot) running the pinch post where they have to be able to see the floor and distribute well by passing to the release valves or to cutters or doing things like dribble pitches (like a handoff/screen. Spurs did this a lot). They also have to be able to knock down midrange shots with ease and post up on the low block.

Think about what Pau does in the triangle

The 3s tend to run screens, cut, and/or stay in the corner either for open threes or passes to the cutters, low block, or high post. They don't get a lot of opportunities to post up cuz it cramps spacing when there's a 4 or 5 already there.

Think about Matt Barnes or MWP's roles.

I think Carmelo's much more naturally a 4 in the triangle than a 3. He can bang bodies, he's getting good at passing, he can knock down jumpers, and he draws a lot of attention whenever he gets the ball especially on the low block which means more open guys. I don't think he'll get as gassed as much cuz the 4s don't run around like the 3s but I don't know why he's losing weight to fit in the triangle cuz he needs to bang bodies occasionally
post #17935 of 27205
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
giphy.gif

seriously though, carmelo should've went to the bulls. D. Rose looks to be back in elite form, so it would've been nice to actually be in a position to actually have a chance at a championship because you have a good team around you rather than just pay lip service to it.

Except that DRose has played 20 games the last two years and there is a very real possibility of him getting injured again. And then it's Carmelo, Joakim and a 50 year old Pau. As bad as the Knicks may be this year, they've got all the money in the world to retool next year. If things don't go as planned in Chicago, what is their flexibility over the next 2-3 years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

The triangle generally has the four (or a 5 who can shoot) running the pinch post where they have to be able to see the floor and distribute well by passing to the release valves or to cutters or doing things like dribble pitches (like a handoff/screen. Spurs did this a lot). They also have to be able to knock down midrange shots with ease and post up on the low block.

Think about what Pau does in the triangle

The 3s tend to run screens, cut, and/or stay in the corner either for open threes or passes to the cutters, low block, or high post. They don't get a lot of opportunities to post up cuz it cramps spacing when there's a 4 or 5 already there.

Think about Matt Barnes or MWP's roles.

I think Carmelo's much more naturally a 4 in the triangle than a 3. He can bang bodies, he's getting good at passing, he can knock down jumpers, and he draws a lot of attention whenever he gets the ball especially on the low block which means more open guys. I don't think he'll get as gassed as much cuz the 4s don't run around like the 3s but I don't know why he's losing weight to fit in the triangle cuz he needs to bang bodies occasionally

From the rumors and stories that the NY media has been putting out, it sounds like they are going to try Bargnani and some Jason Smith as the Gasol type player. It's a contract year for him (and JR).
post #17936 of 27205
Bargs should fit well in that offense

anyway interesting year for the Knicks, if Amare can play like 70games and Bargs will have a solid year they will make playoffs imo
then next year they can sign a star player and still have cap to keep Bargs or Amare
post #17937 of 27205
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

Except that DRose has played 20 games the last two years and there is a very real possibility of him getting injured again. And then it's Carmelo, Joakim and a 50 year old Pau. As bad as the Knicks may be this year, they've got all the money in the world to retool next year. If things don't go as planned in Chicago, what is their flexibility over the next 2-3 years?
From the rumors and stories that the NY media has been putting out, it sounds like they are going to try Bargnani and some Jason Smith as the Gasol type player. It's a contract year for him (and JR).

Oh right forgot about bargs. Still think melo is a much better four but that makes sense. I guess they have to use bargs somehow cuz they spent so much on him and bargs can't shoot as well so melo naturally goes to the three.

I feel like the good thing about the triangle is that it can hide deficiencies pretty well because of the constant motion

I watched a few knicks and golden state summer league games and seems the bad thing is it needs high bball iq and at least lots of experience. There's just so many options players will get confused as to what they're supposed to do. The first year will be tough on golden state and the knicks.
post #17938 of 27205
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

Except that DRose has played 20 games the last two years and there is a very real possibility of him getting injured again. And then it's Carmelo, Joakim and a 50 year old Pau. As bad as the Knicks may be this year, they've got all the money in the world to retool next year. If things don't go as planned in Chicago, what is their flexibility over the next 2-3 years?

chicago's flexibility is actually great: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

although Rose is still on the books for two more years, Noah is expiring next year, and Gasol (who took less money than the Lakers offered him) is a expiring next year with a player option in 2015/2016 at a super duper cheap (for a center who still is productive) $7.7 million.

if carmelo would've signed with the bulls - basically only rose and carmelo would've been on the books in 2015. from there they would've had [and still do have] the option to dangle Noah in a sign and trade for another max contract.

remember Jerry M. Reinsdorf is a frugal owner in a smart way (meaning he doesn't really waste money where it needn't be wasted).


of course the knicks have a lot of money coming off the books next year http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

but really then your core is carmelo and calderon. with lebron and kevin love off the books who are the knicks realistically targeting? durant? CP3? Westbrook? Its looking like 2010 all over again where they might be forced to pay a 2nd/3rd tier star like Lamarcus Aldridge or Damien Llilard who won't exactly be the cornerstone to the promise land.

also it looks like the superstars are a little more savvy this generation when taking consideration about signing with a team in regards to ownership situations and especially coach and teammates. the knicks have Dolan, then jackson a semi absentee president of operations (who will live in LA and probably work half the time using Skype and a cellphone while jeanie buss is sitting on his lap beside the pool or range in Idaho) and a rookie coach in fisher (who was basically working with the CORRUPT AS HELL Billy Hunter to ruin player's salary and future earnings when they tanked the negotiations in the last CBA). if anything this knicks situation looks like it could blow up and become another drama filled dramedy.

again, on paper it looks like the bulls may be favored to come out of the east. but in reality the Cavs might just gel quick and run roughshod over the league next year. either way its a top heavy east and carmelo is left all by his lonesome.
post #17939 of 27205
whats sad is how damn corrupt the last Player's Union head was:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/21571002/the-evidence-speaks-for-itself-union-head-hunter-has-to-go

"The law firm investigating the union since April 2012, of course, tackled the well-known practice of Hunter, 70, employing multiple family members at the union and doing business on the union's behalf with entities controlled by other family members and friends. This was not the news; the NBPA's nepotism had long since been acknowledged and isn't necessarily illegal, and according to a statement released by Hunter on Thursday, it is already in the process of being addressed.

But while the union's numerous business entanglements with Hunter's family members was not even the headline in this exhaustive report, the probe found that the practice extended beyond family members to what it called "cronyism" involving numerous Hunter friends. Honestly, you have to read the report to enjoy the tales of "Uncle Rudy," "Cousin Nate," and various contractors who did union work after allegedly performing personal services to Hunter. At times, the report reads like it has to be fiction, like the script of an Oliver Stone movie. But it's real.

"His choices created the appearance that he operated the Union in part for the benefit of his family and friends," the report said. "… The appearance of favoritism has damaged the union."


The report also found that Hunter had spent at least $300,000 in union funds "exploring potential investments;" more than $100,000 on gifts for outgoing union presidents and other members of the executive committee, including a $22,000 watch given to union president Derek Fisher in June 2010; $28,000 for former retired players association director Charles Smith for his personal legal fees; additional cost to the union of $69,000 for flights Hunter routinely took to and from his longtime place of residence, Oakland, Calif.; and many, many other examples. The evidence went on and on. It went on for years and miles, backed up by thousands of documents, emails, travel logs -– everything the investigators could get their hands on without subpoenas.


http://deadspin.com/5977468/nba-players-association-head-billy-hunter-once-used-22000-of-union-funds-to-buy-derek-fisher-a-watch

derek fisher is a smart guy. high basketball IQ. but the way he's basically walked hand in hand with billy hunter to guarantee that lebron, KD, and other NBA superstars won't even earn as much as top Major League Baseball pitchers (who only pitch every 4 fucking games) would be reason enough for a superstar not to want to willingly sign with the knicks. I know I wouldn't.

carmelo had a choice to sign for super max money or chase a ring with the bulls. he made a great decision in not undervaluing his worth, but thats his deal with the devil right now, corrupt (or very stupid either way killed your true financial value) fisher as coach, lame duck owner in dolan (remember how dolan said he'd be hands off? but then meddled in the steve kerr negations anyway?), and phil jackson (who in reality is probably taking this job as a cushy semi-retirement huge $12million/year pension fund).
post #17940 of 27205
Jackson bought an apartment on 57th st ($5mln), he'll be living here for the season. Lets let the season play out before anointing Cleveland or Chicago anything, there are a lot of moving pieces on both. As to who the Knicks are targeting, Marc Gasol makes the most sense. Milsap would fit in nicely (melo/gasol/milsap), as would Monroe. Then there is Dragic, Wes Matthews also available. The Knicks are going to clear more space, before the end of the year, depending on who is playing better, they wil probably try and move either JR or Shump. They also have some nice young players to develop over the next season (THJ/Early/Larkin), they can fill a need or be traded for a need. Its not impossible to see a 2015/2016 Knicks starting five of Calderon (or a Dragic), smith/shump/thj, melo/milsap/gasol.
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