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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1160

post #17386 of 27206
According to Zach Lowe, the Bulls are adamant they could have cleared enough cap room to sign Melo to a max deal had he committed to Chicago. That probably would have involved an amnestied Carlos Boozer and trading Taj Gibson away, but it would have been worth it, IMO.

http://grantland.com/features/2014-nba-free-agency-winners-and-losers-houston-rockets-chandler-parsons/

I believe the 4 years at $15 mil/year that Simmons was talking about was if Chicago was trying to keep their roster intact.
post #17387 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnFacconable View Post

He's just assuming the 7.5% cap raise for next season but not subsequent raises. People are expecting big increase in 2 years, hence Lebron's 2 year deal, but Silver is using the same $2.8 million per win as the benchmark for each season.

he is adjusting the value per season



he's not using a flat value for each season. his value per win rises every season
post #17388 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by diadem View Post

According to Zach Lowe, the Bulls are adamant they could have cleared enough cap room to sign Melo to a max deal had he committed to Chicago. That probably would have involved an amnestied Carlos Boozer and trading Taj Gibson away, but it would have been worth it, IMO.

http://grantland.com/features/2014-nba-free-agency-winners-and-losers-houston-rockets-chandler-parsons/

I believe the 4 years at $15 mil/year that Simmons was talking about was if Chicago was trying to keep their roster intact.

Well then they should have pulled a Houston, trade away your bench for nothing, refuse to match on your starting small forward and then when Melo turned them down, go out and sign a 29 year old forward that most likely had the best year he will ever have last season teacha.gif
post #17389 of 27206
Except they were smart enough to stand pat until they got a commitment from Melo, which they never did.

Houston can't be blamed for trying to sign Bosh. He would have made the Rockets instant title contenders. It's just stupid the way they went about trying to do it (Mark Cuban did his best to sabotage the situation as well). They basically gave away Jeremy Lin for free along with a first-round draft pick. That's not something you do unless you have a bird in hand, which Daryl Morey is learning the hard way.
post #17390 of 27206
i never really realized that durant and lebron are underpaid because they produce much more value than their max. seems like the cheapest way to get the best team is actually get a durant or lebron and surround them with decent enough players rather than getting a few all star players at market value
post #17391 of 27206
Or get star players to play under value because of the organization's commitment to winning basketball and consistent excellence.


Think Spurs.
post #17392 of 27206
not a lot of guys out there like that. spurs and dirk. i think thats it. everybody else wants to milk it for as much as possible even it means not winning a championship (sup kobe)

uh wizards going all out (lol). humphries for $13 million for 3 years. seems about right
post #17393 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post

Or get star players to play under value because of the organization's commitment to winning basketball and consistent excellence.

Think Spurs.

 


Kawhi Leonard is currently trying to work out a contract extension with SA right now. I'd hold my breath on the whole "under value" thing for the time being, especially after he won Finals MVP and all...The Spurs better not let him hit restricted free agency, either. A max offer sheet is guaranteed to come his way and then SA is screwed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

not a lot of guys out there like that. spurs and dirk. i think thats it. everybody else wants to milk it for as much as possible even it means not winning a championship (sup kobe)

 


Agreed.
post #17394 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post

Or get star players to play under value because of the organization's commitment to winning basketball and consistent excellence.


Think Spurs.

I'm not a Spurs historian but have they ever really gone after a "star" or signed one, outside of Duncan who they drafted and if you want to go back further, Robinson. I don't recall them ever going after a Melo or Lebron type of player. I don't know Duncan's contract details since he has been with them and I am sure he has had opportunities to go elsewhere for more money but don't the Spurs typically take unwanted/unused veterans from other teams and draft smart and then have these guys turn to stars under their system?
post #17395 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

i never really realized that durant and lebron are underpaid because they produce much more value than their max. seems like the cheapest way to get the best team is actually get a durant or lebron and surround them with decent enough players rather than getting a few all star players at market value
Isn't that what Cleveland tried the first time around?
Seriously, I'm not sure you can draw too many strategic conclusions from those numbers. They may help provide insight into the relative value of a particular person. But one of the dangers of "advanced metrics" is the temptation to start thinking that if you put together the perfect fantasy team using the right metrics you've put together the perfect. team. At the very least, those values are going to be dynamic in a real game situation, and going with the five (or ten) guys who give you the most perfectly calibrated ration of WAR/$ doesn't necessarily give you the best chance of winning in the real world.

There are all sorts of reasons it's not a completely fitting analogy, while the Moneyball A's may have done a great job of capturing value, they didn't actually win any championships.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post

Or get star players to play under value because of the organization's commitment to winning basketball and consistent excellence.

.
Crazy talk. No team would ever do that.
post #17396 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

i never really realized that durant and lebron are underpaid because they produce much more value than their max. seems like the cheapest way to get the best team is actually get a durant or lebron and surround them with decent enough players rather than getting a few all star players at market value

yes getting one of the top two players in the league is a good strategy, I agree
post #17397 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

why? it should be adjusted so that whatever play produces the most value is given value whether thats shooting or passing. you could pass into a bad situation (hello lebron 2011 and before) as well as a good situation

i do agree with you tho about knicks being able to overpay.

It was more of a way of saying that those two players were never really good in the clutch is all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

I'm not a Spurs historian but have they ever really gone after a "star" or signed one, outside of Duncan who they drafted and if you want to go back further, Robinson. I don't recall them ever going after a Melo or Lebron type of player. I don't know Duncan's contract details since he has been with them and I am sure he has had opportunities to go elsewhere for more money but don't the Spurs typically take unwanted/unused veterans from other teams and draft smart and then have these guys turn to stars under their system?

While what you are saying is true, the fact remains that a player like say, Tony Parker, could have left SA and taken big money to play somewhere else. He didn't so they never had to chase down anybody like everybody else has.
post #17398 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Isn't that what Cleveland tried the first time around?
Seriously, I'm not sure you can draw too many strategic conclusions from those numbers. They may help provide insight into the relative value of a particular person. But one of the dangers of "advanced metrics" is the temptation to start thinking that if you put together the perfect fantasy team using the right metrics you've put together the perfect. team. At the very least, those values are going to be dynamic in a real game situation, and going with the five (or ten) guys who give you the most perfectly calibrated ration of WAR/$ doesn't necessarily give you the best chance of winning in the real world.

There are all sorts of reasons it's not a completely fitting analogy, while the Moneyball A's may have done a great job of capturing value, they didn't actually win any championships.
Crazy talk. No team would ever do that.

well making the perfect advanced stats team using the salary cap available is better than just doing it willy nilly this dude looks like he plays great (hello jim dolan), but yes it won't translate perfectly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teger View Post

yes getting one of the top two players in the league is a good strategy, I agree

you misunderstand my point. I'm comparing the value you get between a creating a team at the salary cap with a) one superstar and many average players vs b) a few all stars and bench players



i didn't realize how much more value superstars produce than all stars even though they get paid the same
post #17399 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggskip View Post

It was more of a way of saying that those two players were never really good in the clutch is all.
While what you are saying is true, the fact remains that a player like say, Tony Parker, could have left SA and taken big money to play somewhere else. He didn't so they never had to chase down anybody like everybody else has.

also Spurs won in Parkers 2nd season and Manu's first; a good incentive to stay smile.gif
it is pretty remarkable they still play together, it's sort of oldschool like Celtics or Lakers in 80s, doesn't happen that often nowadays
post #17400 of 27206
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojt View Post

it is pretty remarkable they still play together, it's sort of oldschool like Celtics or Lakers in 80s, doesn't happen that often nowadays

The Heat tried it for four years lol8[1].gif
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