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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 1025

post #15361 of 27229
yea man if you're focused on just the blame for the last play then i don't know what game you were watching
post #15362 of 27229
Thread Starter 
Well if you're really going to take the running gag on Westbrook seriously then I don't know what to tell you.

The fact is Westbrook has a history of doing that and that is why it is a joke but I ask you, who do you want taking your last show? A contested running jumpshot from Russy or from a wide open MVP who had 40pts and shot 50% from the field?
post #15363 of 27229
Oh, I didn't know (and still don't???) if you were being serious that the loss was Russ' fault. Obv ppl on Twitter go fucking crazy criticizing RW. I think it hardly is. He might be 2nd on the list, but he's way down there below Brooks.

Yea I'm not saying he shouldn't have passed to KD on the last shot, I think he should have. I paused it and pointed out while watching at home that Durant was open. But it's not like he's Josh Smith and Durant had a guaranteed bucket. He's hit game-winning 3s before, was guarded by Collison (hardly contested) and Durant was 1/7 from 3 pt land and would have been much less open if Westbrook actually passed it there. It's not an irresponsible decision.

But I don't think that last shot really matters that much in the big scheme of things. As in: if he passes to KD and KD wins the game, are the greater issues of the team really solved? I say not at all. Therefore I don't think it's Westbrook's fault they lost.
post #15364 of 27229
Thread Starter 
You're taking everything too damn serious. No the loss isn't all on Russy but do I think he played a bigger part in it than everyone else? Hell yes!

I disagree with your point on KD, Russy was 1-4 behind the arc and KD was being guarded by CP3 who gives up a good 9"-10" and was about 8 feet away.

If Russy made that pass and KD won the game, then part of the problem is solved, Russy being a ballhog. If KD misses, part of the problem is solved, Russy being a ballhog. What is the biggest criticism on him and in part Brooks coaching? Letting Russy run with the ball while the MVP, who gives you the best chance at winning, doesn't have the chance to shoot in the last second. KD is to blame for not asking for the ball too, he's too timid at times but it's more difficult to be aggressive in asking for the ball when the other dude is too stubborn and in that event Russy should know better as a PG, survey the damn court. At the end of the day, it's no different than Lebron passing the ball instead of shooting it, would you rather your best player win or lose the game for you or someone else? Would your opponent prefer someone else beat you other than your MVP?

I get it Russy hit game winners before but how many had KD hit himself? I have no numbers right now (indesertum?) but I am confident he has far exceeded Russys number in that regard.

I mean yeah they blew a 22 pts lead but again you want your best chance at winning the game and Russy throwing up that shot wasn't it. The loss was a team effort but beyond the ridiculous overreaction on Russy, there is a reason behind it and a valid one at that. How do you think KD won MVP, it was because Russy went down and it allowed KD to actually play to his greatest potential.
post #15365 of 27229
Haha I'm not taking anything crazy serious, I'm prob not expressing that clearly tho. I laugh about more basketball shit than anything else, maybe.

Also man I agree w/ you that Russ shoulda taken passed and Durant shoulda taken the shot, I said as much above. I just don't think it's that worthy of criticism. Like Westbrook taking the last shot isn't Donyell Marshall or Larry Hughes or whoever the f. But your point about LBJ is a little bit odd given that Bosh has taken numerous game-tying/game-winning shots and made them.

Altogether I think you're pretty off-base about Russ being more responsible for the loss than anyone else. Russ gets crazy criticism, certainly some of it warranted. But this loss falls pretty damn clearly on Brooks, and even Twitter thinks as much. Brooks almost couldn't call a single thing that wasn't KD at the high post calling for the ball w/ 10 secs on the shot clock while being doubled. Westbrook passed the ball to him numerous times in this "set" in the 4th and things very rarely worked out for OKC (only time I can remember off the top of my head is KD's rip-through move on Paul, where he made 1 FT). I don't really get how you can call him a ballhog this game, except for the last shot.

Besides Brooks did the dumbest fucking thing ever in not fouling the last possession. Insanely lucky it worked out for them (didn't even really work out, given that KD didn't get the ball).

Also not sure what your point about KD being MVP was...you're not seriously arguing OKC is better w/o RW, are you? If no, then who cares about KD being MVP w/o Russ on the floor?
post #15366 of 27229
Watching it live, you just knew Russ was gonna pull it up for a 3 to try to win that game. No way he was going to pass to Durant or try to force overtime. That's just how he do

RussellWestbrookSixShooter-550x385.jpg
post #15367 of 27229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

Haha I'm not taking anything crazy serious, I'm prob not expressing that clearly tho. I laugh about more basketball shit than anything else, maybe.

Also man I agree w/ you that Russ shoulda taken passed and Durant shoulda taken the shot, I said as much above. I just don't think it's that worthy of criticism. Like Westbrook taking the last shot isn't Donyell Marshall or Larry Hughes or whoever the f. But your point about LBJ is a little bit odd given that Bosh has taken numerous game-tying/game-winning shots and made them.

Yes but look at his Cleveland days and before Bosh hits those clutch 3s or Ray. Seriously go back and look at the database and articles of Lebron being clutch and passing the ball, it's everywhere. I am not sure how you do not see my point that your best bet at winning is at the hands of your superstar and Lebron did not get those criticisma way until he actually became clutch and took his shots and made them. Back then even when his teammate made the shot, the criticism was still "there's Lebron scared of the moment, passing the ball again!". After you are out of that rut and proved yourself then your decisions to pass looks better, did Bosh's shots came from Lebrons pass? Did Kerrs game winning J for the chip came from Jordans pass? That's just how it is, Russy not passing has been a problem and I know it seems like I am knocking him but look back in this thread season after season, I am the only one defending Russy to stay with Durant but now you see that Jackson, a true PG, might just be better with Durant than Russy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post

Altogether I think you're pretty off-base about Russ being more responsible for the loss than anyone else. Russ gets crazy criticism, certainly some of it warranted. But this loss falls pretty damn clearly on Brooks, and even Twitter thinks as much. Brooks almost couldn't call a single thing that wasn't KD at the high post calling for the ball w/ 10 secs on the shot clock while being doubled. Westbrook passed the ball to him numerous times in this "set" in the 4th and things very rarely worked out for OKC (only time I can remember off the top of my head is KD's rip-through move on Paul, where he made 1 FT). I don't really get how you can call him a ballhog this game, except for the last shot.

It's not just this game, did I say it's just this game? It;s whole career and it's been a criticism of him from the start. I mean how many articles and bitching has there been that OKC lost because Russy took more shots than KD had points? It's a recurring problem and Russy may not do it for the spant for 48 minutes on the court but all it takes is that one shot where he goes back to him wanting to play hero ball and it could cost them the series. It seriously can, again we both agree that we rather see KD lose that game than Russy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothersport View Post


Also not sure what your point about KD being MVP was...you're not seriously arguing OKC is better w/o RW, are you? If no, then who cares about KD being MVP w/o Russ on the floor?

My point is that with Russy out of the way, KD played better and actually had his shots. I think their record was better w/o Russy this year though. Not fully convinced OKC is better without Russy but if they traded him for another scorer and let Jackson run the point, I think they'll be better off, yes. I mean we all saw how they struggled when Russy went down last year but Russy just hasn't changed and he has to for them to win and Jackson has played spectacular in Russys absence (similar to Blakes emergence when CP3 went down).

And I've already mentioned Brooks, dude can't let go of his old players and I swear Fisher has a contract to let him play in every game if he is healthy because Brooks just can't let dude sit.

I still believe they would have lost game 7 had Randolph not been suspended.

Again, Russy could play well all night long but in that one key moment where he gets a lapse that will bite him in the ass and that's exactly what happened tonight.


But whatever, you've taken a funny joke and dragged it to the mud. I'm for the Clippers winning so for all I care, Westbrook can Westbrook as much as he wants.
post #15368 of 27229
I feel bad for Wiz fans. There's little chance Wittman is gonna get fired now, right? He almost certainly deserves as much (dude has literally the worst coaching winning % of all time, min 400 games [Wittman has coached 520, .367%]) and they should be at the very least tied in this series.

Are they pretty much resigned to paying Gortat now? He's not gonna be cheap, and then Ariza is a FA too I believe, and is talking about signing mostly (solely?) for money.
post #15369 of 27229
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Yes but look at his Cleveland days and before Bosh hits those clutch 3s or Ray. Seriously go back and look at the database and articles of Lebron being clutch and passing the ball, it's everywhere. I am not sure how you do not see my point that your best bet at winning is at the hands of your superstar and Lebron did not get those criticisma way until he actually became clutch and took his shots and made them. Back then even when his teammate made the shot, the criticism was still "there's Lebron scared of the moment, passing the ball again!". After you are out of that rut and proved yourself then your decisions to pass looks better, did Bosh's shots came from Lebrons pass? Did Kerrs game winning J for the chip came from Jordans pass? That's just how it is, Russy not passing has been a problem and I know it seems like I am knocking him but look back in this thread season after season, I am the only one defending Russy to stay with Durant but now you see that Jackson, a true PG, might just be better with Durant than Russy.
Uh? I do see your point, I said Russ shoulda passed it. Not sure how many times I have to say that at this pt.
I always thought that criticism of LBJ passing in the clutch was dumb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

It's not just this game, did I say it's just this game? It;s whole career and it's been a criticism of him from the start. I mean how many articles and bitching has there been that OKC lost because Russy took more shots than KD had points? It's a recurring problem and Russy may not do it for the spant for 48 minutes on the court but all it takes is that one shot where he goes back to him wanting to play hero ball and it could cost them the series. It seriously can, again we both agree that we rather see KD lose that game than Russy.
Well we've only been talking about this game, you've only mentioned this game, and this started cuz you were talkin bout Westbrook at the end of this game, so how am I supposed to know you're referring to his whole career.
I think it's pretty hyperbolic to say his one instance of hero ball (not disagreeing w/ u) could cost them the series. Plenty of ppl make mistakes, but RW's get magnified. KD had 4 TOs in the 4th and he let Collison leak out for a ridic layup w/ 30 secs left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

My point is that with Russy out of the way, KD played better and actually had his shots. I think their record was better w/o Russy this year though. Not fully convinced OKC is better without Russy but if they traded him for another scorer and let Jackson run the point, I think they'll be better off, yes. I mean we all saw how they struggled when Russy went down last year but Russy just hasn't changed and he has to for them to win and Jackson has played spectacular in Russys absence (similar to Blakes emergence when CP3 went down).
RW is one of the top 10 players in the league, I think it's highly unlikely that the team could improve if he gets traded.
OKC record w/o Russ this year is super unreliable given that he played poorly when he was recovering from injury and got way better since.
Do you know Westbrook's assist % this season? 40.2%. That's 5th in the league, behind Paul/Rondo/Marshall/Wall. Reggie Jackson's? 23.1%. Westbrook's way more a pass-first PG than Jackson. Surprising, huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

And I've already mentioned Brooks, dude can't let go of his old players and I swear Fisher has a contract to let him play in every game if he is healthy because Brooks just can't let dude sit.
Brooks rotflmao.gifrotflmao.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Again, Russy could play well all night long but in that one key moment where he gets a lapse that will bite him in the ass and that's exactly what happened tonight.
Do you think the fact that you emphasize Russ's one lapse over that whole game says more about him as a player or you as a basketball fan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

But whatever, you've taken a funny joke and dragged it to the mud. I'm for the Clippers winning so for all I care, Westbrook can Westbrook as much as he wants.
:/ It's pretty obvious I need to actually debate less on this thread. I wanted to discuss NBA and try to change some perceptions but the thread is 90% half-jokes and stream of consciousness. That's great in and of itself, just something I should re-calibrate on. shrug.
post #15370 of 27229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Uh? I do see your point, I said Russ shoulda passed it. Not sure how many times I have to say that at this pt.

If you agree RW should have passed then why keep defending him? I said their best chance is with KD taking the shot and you agreed but still has something else to say? I agreed RW isn't all to blame but you have something else to disagree with? And me thinking/believing he has more to blame because of that one lapse is valid to me, it' snot valid to you, ok then! Savvy? Just when you thought he has changed then he reverts back to it, this happens every season and again I was a big supporter of him for years and years and this year, it just feels like dude is just trolling (I know he isn't before you take that more serious than it is) but again KD not demanding the ball is also at fault. Russ missed the shot so obviously the criticism is on him since he isn't the MVP or the team biggest star.

Quote:
I always thought that criticism of LBJ passing in the clutch was dumb.

It's not dumb, it has validity. Every time you lose because you passed up a shot and you happen to be the best player of the team, then yes that falls on your shoulders and you'll get blamed and criticized.

Quote:
Well we've only been talking about this game, you've only mentioned this game, and this started cuz you were talkin bout Westbrook at the end of this game, so how am I supposed to know you're referring to his whole career.
I think it's pretty hyperbolic to say his one instance of hero ball (not disagreeing w/ u) could cost them the series. Plenty of ppl make mistakes, but RW's get magnified. KD had 4 TOs in the 4th and he let Collison leak out for a ridic layup w/ 30 secs left.

I guess you missed this post or just decided to ignored it completely?
Quote:
Well if you're really going to take the running gag on Westbrook seriously then I don't know what to tell you.

The fact is Westbrook has a history of doing that

You're also emphasizing too much on that one instance and for the most part, it was a joke. I do not know how many times I have to say this, hell I didn't even know it had to be said.

And you are still arguing so even though you keep saying you don't disagree make no damn sense. If you agree then there is no argument. It's also stupid to say "plenty makes mistakes but RW gets magnified" as if it isn't valid. Shit is the same complain for years now and nothing has changed, what the hell do you expect? KD is getting better and better and RW prevents him from shooting the ball. Again when he takes more fg attempts than KD has points, then there is a problem but let me guess, you don't disagree but you'll say something else that disagrees anyways?


Quote:
RW is one of the top 10 players in the league, I think it's highly unlikely that the team could improve if he gets traded.
OKC record w/o Russ this year is super unreliable given that he played poorly when he was recovering from injury and got way better since.
/QUOTE]


Umm, obviously they'd trade him for another top player that will compliment KD better. Their not going to drop RW for a second round pick. I think you are insane if you do not think the team could get better if RW is traded. Dude gets traded for Wall or CP3 and OKC won't be better? Before you start the "well I am talking about the possible trades, blah, blah, blah" well you didn't say that and chances of that happening (for CP3) is low but they can trade for a good/decent PG and another good wingman, it doesn't have to be one top player.

And no damn excuses for him recovering, if you're not 100% do not come back, how about that? Did he hurt himself again and re-injure it? Yup!


Quote:
Do you think the fact that you emphasize Russ's one lapse over that whole game says more about him as a player or you as a basketball fan?

The hell is that even suppose to mean? It was a goddamn joke to begin with but you just didn't get it and wanted to drag this shit on. Again read the fucking thread and if you don't know the regulars by now, then keep lurking or something because you are obviously missing something.

AGAIN IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT ONE FUCKING LAPSE IN ONE GAME!!!!! ITS A RECURRING PROBLEM!!!!!!!!! AND THAT IS WHY IT IS A RUNNING GAG!!!!!

Do I have to bold that out too to get it inside your brain? Why don't you get that? Are all the analyst saying the same thing not enough for you?


But fuck it, you've sullied a very good win for the Clips because you can't get a fucking joke. It's like a baby idfnl in the making here.
post #15371 of 27229
Thread Starter 
Alright after a quick workout and got some adrenaline and endorphine pumping, I got to apologize to Brothersport, calling him "baby idfnl" is out of line.
post #15372 of 27229
^ Where are you that you're working out at this hour? I could have sworn you were in the US.
post #15373 of 27229
Thread Starter 
I am, in Cali, it's a midnight workout in my home. Was busy the whole day being a Mothers day then theres the games and then GoT and Penny Dreadful.
post #15374 of 27229
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Alright after a quick workout and got some adrenaline and endorphine pumping, I got to apologize to Brothersport, calling him "baby idfnl" is out of line.
laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif That's pretty awesome.
I'm sorry you got aggravated, I'm really not trolling here. Believe it or not I"m totally up for actual substantive discussion bout the NBA.
It mostly comes down to...I understand where you're coming from but I think he gets an unfair amount of criticism.
The analysts I follow (e.g. Zach Lowe, Haralabos Voulgaris) also I believe honestly understand more about basketball and are less reactionary, and I think they would agree w/ what I said about RW. Westbrook is just one of those players where it seems like his flaws can be fixed much more easily, whether or not that's actually gonna happen. I think that skews ppl to think he's worse for the team than he actually is.
It's like...when Wade and LBJ were not flowin great in their first year they mainly required a better system, which falls on their coach. It would have been a rash decision to get rid of Wade for taking too many shots. I don't see too many reasons that this should be different. Westbrook being a PG, to me, doesn't really mean the situation should be too different.
I'm not gonna keep this up and go thru your post (where you had some good points) unless you wanna keep it up by PM or something.
post #15375 of 27229
as a clips fan (albeit fairly newly minted), i have to say that i hated every time westbrook touched the ball -- he made hash of collison that whole fourth quarter. you can focus on that last shot, but how many full-court drives to the basket did he make? i hate the guy, too, but gotta give credit where it's due. and i thought cp3 did a terrific job on durant in the last 8 minutes or so. nobody's going to stop that guy, he's phenomenal. but he made him uncomfortable enough that it took him out of some of his shots. despite what would conservatively be a 9-inch difference in height (and that's not including wingspan).
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