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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 976

post #14626 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

Ed, please don't tell me you're getting suckered by Bargnani. That's not going to end well

If you need him to be your number one offensive threat, you are screwed. If you put him on a team where he is number 2-3 and you put a leash on him where he cannot shoot past 20 feet, he is valuable. Don't know the story in Toronto but in NY, he was another casualty of Woodson's mind boggling rotations/lineups. With all his "issues", he still averaged almost 14 a game and was a solid one on one defender.
post #14627 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAMOR View Post

thanks for posting - i enjoyed this. 80%ish of the video is the same fucking move. dont jump on the first pump fake!

you could say the same about Kobe (with his turn around step back - kopped from Larry Bird) or Jordan's fall away, and Dirks one Legged fall away. Don't forget Duncan's shot fake then moves his arms right under the defenders arm(s) to draw a foul (that foul has actually been outlawed and now is classified as a non shooting foul because its so effective lol8[1].gif )

what that video didn't show is how McHale would initially just shoot straight up with no fake, being 7ft with that long wingspan and shooting motion with ball behind his head), he was already probably shooting near 50%.

So defenders would then be enticed to then defend by jumping a little, and then the defenders were basically owned at that point.

i think the sad part of todays nba is how big men can't create their own offense consistently (other than duncan and few others).

Dwight howard has a 7'4.5" wingspan (on his 6'9" tall body w/o shoes), but his offensive moves rarely even take advantage of it. He's clumsy most of the time, and when his shots do go its kind of a surprise to everyone. The advantage being shots within 10 feet are naturally going to be high percentage.

Blake griffen has improved a ton this year with that regard. He had his one signature move, he'll get the ball with back to basket, create space, then turn around (and inexplicably always dribble through his legs), then either pull up for a 15-18ft shot, or drive to the hole.

What he did this year? he just simplified everything and will go immediately to the hole using his first step (like a prime James Worthy), or when his back is to the basket do a quick spin and drive (like worthy or robert parish), but if space is there he can consistently hit that 15-18footer now.
post #14628 of 27236
LawrenceMD, who would you take, a in their prime James Worthy or Paul George?

What about an in their prime Tom Chambers or Kevin Love?
post #14629 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

If you need him to be your number one offensive threat, you are screwed. If you put him on a team where he is number 2-3 and you put a leash on him where he cannot shoot past 20 feet, he is valuable. Don't know the story in Toronto but in NY, he was another casualty of Woodson's mind boggling rotations/lineups. With all his "issues", he still averaged almost 14 a game and was a solid one on one defender.

Dude, he's a terrible shooter, even worse rebounder and possibly the worst team defender in the league because of his complete cluelessness on rotations. Google "Andrea Bargnani defense" if you don't believe me. He also plays with his head in the clouds and you never really know what he's thinking or paying attention to the game around him.

I'm not trying to be a Knick basher - just saying that if the team wants to be better they really need to get rid of him
post #14630 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

LawrenceMD, who would you take, a in their prime James Worthy or Paul George?

What about an in their prime Tom Chambers or Kevin Love?

Kevin Love is the current analytics darling - because he's so good at what current stat heads love: Rebounding, Shooting, and initiating transition offense (with his outlet passes). Love over Chambers.

Chambers was a confusing player, had all the tools (plus he was one of the few white nba 80's players who had a huge vertical leap) but it never translated to winning... lol kind of like kevin love.

James worthy in a landslide over Paul George. George has potential, but he's kind of like Kawai Leonard (he'll disappear throughout games), then he'll show flashes of a future franchise player future HOFer.
post #14631 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

Dude, he's a terrible shooter, even worse rebounder and possibly the worst team defender in the league because of his complete cluelessness on rotations. Google "Andrea Bargnani defense" if you don't believe me. He also plays with his head in the clouds and you never really know what he's thinking or paying attention to the game around him.

I'm not trying to be a Knick basher - just saying that if the team wants to be better they really need to get rid of him

Well, I know what my eyes saw this year. I know he is a bad team defender, that is why I said he was a good one on one defender (look at his games against Drummond/Howard/Duncan/Hibbert, if I rememver correctly he outplayed them all). A good coach/system will take care of his ehad in the cloud/attention span issue. Unless you watched every Knicks game, you really have no idea just how bad Woodson was in handling this team. That anyone on the team averaged double digit points besides Carmelo is not unlike the miracle of the immaculate conception, Woodson had one offensive play he ran all season. with the right coach and system, Bargnani could be a poor mans Gasol
post #14632 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

Well, I know what my eyes saw this year. I know he is a bad team defender, that is why I said he was a good one on one defender (look at his games against Drummond/Howard/Duncan/Hibbert, if I rememver correctly he outplayed them all). A good coach/system will take care of his ehad in the cloud/attention span issue. Unless you watched every Knicks game, you really have no idea just how bad Woodson was in handling this team. That anyone on the team averaged double digit points besides Carmelo is not unlike the miracle of the immaculate conception, Woodson had one offensive play he ran all season. with the right coach and system, Bargnani could be a poor mans Gasol

The problem here is the rich man's price tag that Bargs came with...
post #14633 of 27236
Well, I agree that Woodson fucked everything up. I guess we disagree on Bargnani.
post #14634 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post

Kevin Love is the current analytics darling - because he's so good at what current stat heads love: Rebounding, Shooting, and initiating transition offense (with his outlet passes). Love over Chambers.

Chambers was a confusing player, had all the tools (plus he was one of the few white nba 80's players who had a huge vertical leap) but it never translated to winning... lol kind of like kevin love.

James worthy in a landslide over Paul George. George has potential, but he's kind of like Kawai Leonard (he'll disappear throughout games), then he'll show flashes of a future franchise player future HOFer.

Its funny how everyone hates Carmelo and alwyas says how he has not won anything and how he makes no one better, yet he took a shitty Denver team to the conference Finals and Love, who everyone loves, has never taken his team to the playoffs.
post #14635 of 27236
Carmelo shoots a thousand times each game..so boring
post #14636 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRoi View Post

Well, I agree that Woodson fucked everything up. I guess we disagree on Bargnani.

Bargnani's deal is the high price tag (and so is Stats although he deserved it when he got it) but you have them and if you know how to use them, they can be very valuable.

Look at Bargs shot chart:

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=200745

In front of the 3 point line, he is money.from straight away and the left wing. Why the fuck Woodson would let him/have him take 100 3 point shots is beyond me but that pales in comparison to what Woodson let Smith do. Now imagine Bargs left wing or behind the 3 point line (weak side) and Carmelo posted up on the right side with a 3 point shooter feeding him the ball? You have 3 points of attack that the defense has to react to and your weak side player (bargs) will either cause that side of the floor to be wide open for a cutter or Melo to work or Barg will have a wide open 3, where he shot over 50% from. Last year his 3's came on transitions (which I hate) and last option after Smith/Melo option did not work.


He's not a monster that is going to put up Kevin Love numbers, but they don't need him to or rather shouldn't expect/want him to.
post #14637 of 27236
Thread Starter 
Bye Pacers!
post #14638 of 27236
Knicks wishin they had gotten the 8th seed rn foo.gif
post #14639 of 27236
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Version 7 View Post

Knicks Pacers wishin they Knicks had gotten the 8th seed rn foo.gif

ftfy
post #14640 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Version 7 View Post

Knicks wishin they had gotten the 8th seed rn foo.gif

Pacers probably do too. Knicks are a big slow team, not unlike Indiana so they would probably play a lot better against us. Hibbert is useless against Atlanta and West also to an extent, I'd play George/Stephenson/Copeland/Scola/Watson, just to change shit up and also keep up with Atlanta. Teague is just strolling inside for layups, its like Hill is paralyzed.
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