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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 974

post #14596 of 27205
Thread Starter 
Asik was hurt for like 3/4th of the season iirc, even by trade deadline dude wasn't getting much if any burn at all.
post #14597 of 27205
Aldridge. Damn.

Beverly is ALL OVER Lillard. He won't let the kid breathe.
post #14598 of 27205
Wow blazers might take this
post #14599 of 27205
Wiz vs PDX in the finalsssss
post #14600 of 27205
Holy shit Cwebb doesn't look high
post #14601 of 27205
Thread Starter 
Wow, Rockets just gave away the game with that defense.
post #14602 of 27205
Playoff basketball always has it surprises and WTF moments but this year is shaping up to look especially jarring.. damn
post #14603 of 27205
^ crazy. HOU is down 0-2.
post #14604 of 27205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo_Version 7 View Post

Playoff basketball always has it surprises and WTF moments but this year is shaping up to look especially jarring.. damn

This year is looking crazier than most:

  • Howard looks like he's going to be embarrassed in Houston; it always seems they'll be lucky to win one, I know that's crazy but the Blazers just seem better
  • I think the Clips will win, but I'm not even 75% sure
  • I think the Mavs have a chance
  • Wiz win easily, surprisingly
  • I think the Pacers sneak out a win, but again, may even be 50/50 for a top-seeded team
  • Raptors - Nets -- don't know?
post #14605 of 27205
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

well then i don't even know what you mean by a classic small ball team. the first 3 you could make an argument they're not a small ball team, but the heats i don't understand how you can not see them as small ball

you'd have to define and differentiate between what "small ball" and "fast paced" offense is.

Pat Reily has stated in the past that his ideal team consists of skilled guys all around the 6'9" range. That means the whole team if possible. I remember borrowing from the library books about Magic Johnson and Riley when I was in middle school and swear there was a quote that said riley ideally wanted a team of skilled guys all around 6'9".

my guess is that he came up with the theory after playing those celtics and rockets teams in the 80's (which had tall front courts). "show time" lakers success in the 80's proved to be successful.

the modern analytic's heavy teams trend is avoid offensive rebounding altogether now - which has been happening since late aughts' with the spurs and 2008 celtics being the most blatant success employing that tactic.

so what happens when you avoid offensive rebounds, but conversely focus even more so on defensive rebounds? the transition game gets boosted to the point where older teams such as the pre 2013-14 celtics, and spurs are near to the top of the league in transition/fast break points. so even though it sound counter intuitive - being a transition team/small ball team is actually easier on the body (especially for teams with all-star big men who are older).

what we are seeing now is a hybrid type of system. (golden state, spurs, and heat) where they play tenacious defense but almost go immediately into transition fast break offense if possible with efficient offensive players/sets (shooting a great shot quickly rather than later).

which leads back to d'antoni. i think he figured it out towards the end (that duh you need to play defense to win) but fast paced transition offense is extremely effective (points per possession wise), but the other teams caught on and sucked up all the ideal players for it (the sean marions, stepen curry's, boris diaw, ect ).
post #14606 of 27205
I didn't watch the second half of Houston/Portland but in the first half, didn't Howard put up like 20 shots and he was beasting (as was Aldridge). Howard ended the game witth 25 shots confused.gif Was he in foul trouble or did Portland start doubling/tripling him? Jones can't guard LA and Asik is also useless against this Portland team. I think Houston will have to go indesertum small, put Garcia on Aldridge to try and stay with him outside and take away his jumper, force him to drive and funnel him in to Howard with a double team. Easier said then done as you can't double with Liliards guy as he will then go off but what they are doing now is not working. Lin led Houston in assists and he only played 20 minutes, a Portland sweep might put McHale on the hot seat but he was kinda screwed when they stuck him with Asik, a valuable trade piece that they could have shored up their defense/bench with. Now they have a good offensive team (when Harden isn't putting up 30 shots or dribbling the ball for 20 seconds) but no perimeter defense at all other than Beverly and he is short, can't really guard/double 2's and 3's.
post #14607 of 27205
post #14608 of 27205
lol8[1].gif
post #14609 of 27205
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post

what we are seeing now is a hybrid type of system. (golden state, spurs, and heat) where they play tenacious defense but almost go immediately into transition fast break offense if possible with efficient offensive players/sets (shooting a great shot quickly rather than later).

which leads back to d'antoni. i think he figured it out towards the end (that duh you need to play defense to win) but fast paced transition offense is extremely effective (points per possession wise), but the other teams caught on and sucked up all the ideal players for it (the sean marions, stepen curry's, boris diaw, ect ).

Riley's Laker teams were looking for shots within about 7 seconds after crossing half court. Perhaps those 80's teams were an influence on the modern take, but the idea that usually your best shot happens early in the shot clock is not new.

That article on offensive rebounding was interesting. I guess its about personnel too. If you have a Rodman, or a Moses Malone and even to a lesser extent a Tyson Chandler, you'd want to take advantage of their knack for it. My takeaway is that a team needs to be smart and use discipline so that guys don't crash the glass chasing stats at the expense of easy points on the other end of the floor. Miami has feasted on this breakdown for a few years now and it helps explain why Indiana was so successful against them last year.
post #14610 of 27205
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post

you'd have to define and differentiate between what "small ball" and "fast paced" offense is.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Pat Reily has stated in the past that his ideal team consists of skilled guys all around the 6'9" range. That means the whole team if possible. I remember borrowing from the library books about Magic Johnson and Riley when I was in middle school and swear there was a quote that said riley ideally wanted a team of skilled guys all around 6'9".

my guess is that he came up with the theory after playing those celtics and rockets teams in the 80's (which had tall front courts). "show time" lakers success in the 80's proved to be successful.

the modern analytic's heavy teams trend is avoid offensive rebounding altogether now - which has been happening since late aughts' with the spurs and 2008 celtics being the most blatant success employing that tactic.

so what happens when you avoid offensive rebounds, but conversely focus even more so on defensive rebounds? the transition game gets boosted to the point where older teams such as the pre 2013-14 celtics, and spurs are near to the top of the league in transition/fast break points. so even though it sound counter intuitive - being a transition team/small ball team is actually easier on the body (especially for teams with all-star big men who are older).

what we are seeing now is a hybrid type of system. (golden state, spurs, and heat) where they play tenacious defense but almost go immediately into transition fast break offense if possible with efficient offensive players/sets (shooting a great shot quickly rather than later).

which leads back to d'antoni. i think he figured it out towards the end (that duh you need to play defense to win) but fast paced transition offense is extremely effective (points per possession wise), but the other teams caught on and sucked up all the ideal players for it (the sean marions, stepen curry's, boris diaw, ect ).
really interesting ideas.
i haven't done the statistical analysis (because i hate math), but as a guy who has been watching for a long time, I wonder how much of it is just the evolution of the modern center (did someone already make that argument?). you rarely see an old-school back-it-in low post offense these days. does this go back to the triangle? when even shaq -- maybe the best pounder-5 in recent times -- often initiated the offense from teh high post before going low? i don't remember even kareem - who was a really skilled big man for his time -- doing that.
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