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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 972

post #14566 of 27247
nearly 12 hours more til rockets vs pdx ffffuuuu.gif
post #14567 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Did you click on the link or the article? It's from Lakers.com. lol8[1].gif

I think you are missing the point of the article because you are so mad for someone you don't care about.

Sheesh!

I wonder how much D'Antoni paid the guy to write that.

I will disagree that SA and Miami are similar to D'Antoni's PHX teams. SA has as traditional a center as there has ever been. I don't watch much SA games but Diaw/Splitter's did not strike me as stretch 4's. Leonard is a prototypical SF and the backcourt of Parker/Green is as traditional as it gets. Miami, the article claims that LeBron played the 4 alot, I must have missed those games. Every Miami game I've seen Lebron has been a 2/3 for 95% of the game. Of course as the league has changed to value long distance shooters more, you'll find instances of small teams on the floor but I don't know how people can compare those PHX teams to SA or Miami and say that they are doing the same thing PHX did. The other thing is, winning by playing small becomes a self fulfilling prophesy when all the teams are playing small. They mention Golden State having success palying small. Well, of course they did, their best players are outside/wing players and outside of Portland and the Clips, the same is pretty much true of all the other Western conference teams. If they had, lets say Shaq in his prime on their team, they wouldn't be playing small.

My larger point is, I think that small system works during the regular season and with very specific types of players. Come the playoffs, it is much easier to slow a game down than it is to speed it up and a "big" team that can dominate the boards will always beat a quicker, smaller lineup. Obviously if two small teams play each other, playing small will be successful.


I want to get excited about the Rockets but they allow Harden to run the show and Howard is secondary (and sometimes tertiary when Parsons is chucking) and it makes no sense to me. Harden is too much of a ball hog and houston's defense is almost non existent.
post #14568 of 27247
http://www.oregonlive.com/nba/index.ssf/2014/04/indiana_pacers_lance_stephenso.html

Stephenson v Turner in practice. Indy is imploding. Very sad because this team had championship potential.

And Stephenson turned the ball over like crazy last night. The guy plays out of control, I know its his 'thing' but he forces that offense to grind to a halt.


Someone needs to tell Roy Hibbert to stop asking for the ball in the post... just fucking rebound, block shots and gobble up a few putbacks. That's all he need do. Watching him post up last night was really painful.
post #14569 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

http://www.oregonlive.com/nba/index.ssf/2014/04/indiana_pacers_lance_stephenso.html

Stephenson v Turner in practice. Indy is imploding. Very sad because this team had championship potential.

And Stephenson turned the ball over like crazy last night. The guy plays out of control, I know its his 'thing' but he forces that offense to grind to a halt.


Someone needs to tell Roy Hibbert to stop asking for the ball in the post... just fucking rebound, block shots and gobble up a few putbacks. That's all he need do. Watching him post up last night was really painful
.

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

fuck im tired of listening to Hibbert moan and bitch and then miss 3 ft turnaround shot. Could argue Deandre Jordan has been more effective on offense hustling on offensive glass
post #14570 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

I wonder how much D'Antoni paid the guy to write that.

I will disagree that SA and Miami are similar to D'Antoni's PHX teams. SA has as traditional a center as there has ever been. I don't watch much SA games but Diaw/Splitter's did not strike me as stretch 4's. Leonard is a prototypical SF and the backcourt of Parker/Green is as traditional as it gets. Miami, the article claims that LeBron played the 4 alot, I must have missed those games. Every Miami game I've seen Lebron has been a 2/3 for 95% of the game. Of course as the league has changed to value long distance shooters more, you'll find instances of small teams on the floor but I don't know how people can compare those PHX teams to SA or Miami and say that they are doing the same thing PHX did. The other thing is, winning by playing small becomes a self fulfilling prophesy when all the teams are playing small. They mention Golden State having success palying small. Well, of course they did, their best players are outside/wing players and outside of Portland and the Clips, the same is pretty much true of all the other Western conference teams. If they had, lets say Shaq in his prime on their team, they wouldn't be playing small.

My larger point is, I think that small system works during the regular season and with very specific types of players. Come the playoffs, it is much easier to slow a game down than it is to speed it up and a "big" team that can dominate the boards will always beat a quicker, smaller lineup. Obviously if two small teams play each other, playing small will be successful.


I want to get excited about the Rockets but they allow Harden to run the show and Howard is secondary (and sometimes tertiary when Parsons is chucking) and it makes no sense to me. Harden is too much of a ball hog and houston's defense is almost non existent.

nobody is saying MIA and SA are the exact same teams as the PHX teams. the argument is that a lot of current teams that have seen success have a lot more in common with PHX teams than traditional lineups. Mainly the argument is that small ball can be successful.

as for lebron is a 2/3 you just have to look on basketball reference

2013-2014

2012-2013


Lebron primarily plays a 4, plays a very small amount of time at the 3 (bosh and andersen both on the floor), and never plays the 2

I mean it's really hard to argue that MIA is not small ball and if you can't argue that it's much harder to argue that small ball doesn't win championships

chris andersen is 6' 10 and haslem is 6' 8. they won their first championship with haslem and joel anthony (6' 9) as center. Lebron is only an inch shorter at 6' 8. Those are power forward sizes not center sizes

Also not all teams are playing small and just because a lot of teams are playing small doesn't mean that the champions will win through small ball if as you say small ball doesn't work
post #14571 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

Also not all teams are playing small and just because a lot of teams are playing small doesn't mean that the champions will win through small ball if as you say small ball doesn't work

Maybe not, but its become the thing to do. I think every team now uses a small lineup. This is not novel, but its much more common now. I remain surprised at the evolution. Usually a team that rebounds is a winning team but Miami is the worst rebounding team in the NBA and has won 2 on the trot.

Last night Hibbert looked tragic trying to guard at the 3 point line. There were a couple of instances where Teague blew to the rim while he was out there. More than small ball, it seems like everyone on the floor needs to be a 3 point threat now. Atlanta hide lineups out there last night where every guy shot the 3. I hate to harp on Hibbert because I actually like the guy, but he looks really, really bad right now. He's got the double whammy of being out of form and also dealing with really bad match-ups.
post #14572 of 27247
there are so many centers and power forwards who can't or won't shoot the 3...

atlanta's situations is actually very unique and wouldn't have happened if horford hadn't gotten injured. i can't think of a single team outside of atlanta that prominently features a 3 shooting center. kevin love plays the 4 alongside pekovic or gorgui. nowitzki rarely plays center. millsap plays the 4 mostly.

i mean but of course every team has a small lineup. a ton of teams don't use it unless the matchup warrants it tho.... i feel like every team in the nba ever to a very small extent had a small lineup available...
post #14573 of 27247
Thread Starter 
It's just a lack of true centers these days. You also have to be either athletic a la Deandre or strong like Pekovic and both of those guys aren't even really 7 footers. A regular 'ol 7 footer will easily lose his place in rotation because smaller but more athletic or stronger forward will just bully you in the paint.

Plus you really don't need one these days really unless someone like a Shaq arises off the depths of the ocean and it causes teams int eh paint. Like Deandre and Drummond are goo tall, athletic and strong centers but their offensive skills are lacking. Hibbert was good but dude seems fragile mentally, dude was beasting and his hook shots were unstoppable then all of a sudden dude gone on up an disappeared. Dude had a game with 1 rebound and unless you're playing 30 seconds a game, there should be no way a center get that much rebounds a game especially if you aren't the #1 scoring option.
post #14574 of 27247
I had a big reply but whatever, I just don't really care that much. When D'Antoni wins a chip, I'll be the first to throw confetti at the parade. Until then, he and his system are no different to me than those Loyola Marymount teams.
post #14575 of 27247
hibbert_overhelps.gif

This gif basically sums up the Hibbert issue against ATL
post #14576 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

It's just a lack of true centers these days. You also have to be either athletic a la Deandre or strong like Pekovic and both of those guys aren't even really 7 footers. A regular 'ol 7 footer will easily lose his place in rotation because smaller but more athletic or stronger forward will just bully you in the paint.

Plus you really don't need one these days really unless someone like a Shaq arises off the depths of the ocean and it causes teams int eh paint. Like Deandre and Drummond are goo tall, athletic and strong centers but their offensive skills are lacking. Hibbert was good but dude seems fragile mentally, dude was beasting and his hook shots were unstoppable then all of a sudden dude gone on up an disappeared. Dude had a game with 1 rebound and unless you're playing 30 seconds a game, there should be no way a center get that much rebounds a game especially if you aren't the #1 scoring option.

I thought Jordan was a true 7. Maybe not.

My point was more along the lines of having a trend towards more guys on the floor that can gun from distance. Stretching seems to be have taken hold as a must-do. Back when, the idea was to pack the middle and let team shoot but there are so many marksman nowadays that you just can't win like that anymore.

If the trend holds, I am going to miss the true center mold. Although, it would have been comic to see Shaq at the 3 point line.

Around Hibbert, goddam he's also immobile.
post #14577 of 27247
Thread Starter 
Deandre is listed at 6'11", he could be legit 7' just like CP3 is listed as 6' but he might really be 5'10"-5'11" lol8[1].gif


Stretching the perimeter really is key these days, it just isn't going to go away especially now that the NBA is actually talking about adding a 4 pointer. I really hope that conversation was just in passing and doesn't gain any traction.
post #14578 of 27247
just want to chip in and +1000 everything ed said. d'antoni has one interesting offensive idea. but a) he's never won anything with it, despite having a hof point guard who was tailor-made to run it, and b) when his personnel doesn't fit that offense, he insists on running it anyway. he did NOT have a good season last year. granted, part of it might be that dwight was not 100% and that even when he was approaching it, he pouted constantly. but one of the reasons he pouted was because of dantoni's insisting on running a hurry-up offense. and, yes, i'm pissed because i hold him personally responsible for kobe's achilles. what was it 4 straight games of over 40 minutes, playing hurry-up ball at 36? crazy.
post #14579 of 27247
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodguy View Post

just want to chip in and +1000 everything ed said. d'antoni has one interesting offensive idea. but a) he's never won anything with it, despite having a hof point guard who was tailor-made to run it, and b) when his personnel doesn't fit that offense, he insists on running it anyway. he did NOT have a good season last year. granted, part of it might be that dwight was not 100% and that even when he was approaching it, he pouted constantly. but one of the reasons he pouted was because of dantoni's insisting on running a hurry-up offense. and, yes, i'm pissed because i hold him personally responsible for kobe's achilles. what was it 4 straight games of over 40 minutes, playing hurry-up ball at 36? crazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

I had a big reply but whatever, I just don't really care that much. When D'Antoni wins a chip, I'll be the first to throw confetti at the parade. Until then, he and his system are no different to me than those Loyola Marymount teams.

well again nobody is arguing d'antoni's system is the best and is going to win championships. the only point being made is that small ball teams can be successful and win championships. d'antoni's system wasn't just about small ball.

i do agree with you that a good coach and a good system should adapt to its players which d'antoni can't. i really like and prefer the carlisle and popovich way of doing whatever is necessary to fit the current personnel
post #14580 of 27247
Drake courtside at the NBA playoffs using a lint roller



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