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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 942

post #14116 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

i don't think nba will ever homogenize and it really hasn't. there's like 4, 5 teams that are really into the metrics but the rest are just kinda meh. they use some of it but don't commit whole heartedly

I thought like 1/2 the league was using it now. I know SA, Dallas and GSW are really into it, who else? Boston and LAC?
post #14117 of 27201
Lakers a little bit but d'antoni does his own thing with a little euro ball type sets. I was thinking more raptors and rockets. Also Miami but they're not that adverse to mid range

A lot of teams have these big stat analyst departments but the coaches butt heads with them
post #14118 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

A lot of teams have these big stat analyst departments but the coaches butt heads with them

This is how I imagine that scenario. Homer even kinda looks like Thibs

irHSfFzImmQjg.gif
post #14119 of 27201

I feel bad for Andrew Bynum. Dude is only 26 and his career is going to be over after this season. Not to mention his knee is going to bother him the rest of his life. 

post #14120 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMartNJ View Post

I feel bad for Andrew Bynum. Dude is only 26 and he already has more money than most people would see in 26 lifetimes. 
FTFY.
I don't wish injuries on anybody, and it's an unfortunate development for him and for the Pacers. But if I were making a list of folks to feel bad for, being a total ass would bump Bynum quite a way down the list.
post #14121 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post


FTFY.
I don't wish injuries on anybody, and it's an unfortunate development for him and for the Pacers. But if I were making a list of folks to feel bad for, being a total ass would bump Bynum quite a way down the list.

 

Eh, he's from my hometown and he was very good to his friends and family when he got drafted. 

post #14122 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post


Ya, there is a lot of nuance in the game that statistical analysis can't account for. Baseball is better suited for this stuff. But teams are doing it and succeeding... Mavs used it to win against Miami. The old school won't last long. It didn't in baseball. Colleges and even High Schools are wading in. Eventually players will expect the analytics side to be there, even rely on it (gasp).

To my point above, the game is more fun for me to watch when you have distinct styles clashing so I hope the trend towards homogenization stops.

^lol maybe you should complain about how classical music, pop, rap and rock music never changes either.

i think another way is not to compare it with baseball, but to the MMA. Sure the first few UFCs were interesting because it was a pure boxer vs a karate guy, or a muy thai guy vs a wrestler, but there clearly was a dominant type of fighting style that was suited to that type of competition - which actually started to evolve quickly: Brazilian Jujitsu, then a mix of BJJ and muy thai, then there was a american wrestling phase, then it swung way back to a striking phase, and now its a mix of everything.

Meaning its about being well rounded. Just because Steve nash shed light on how the best defense teams work (which rely on the same principles) doesn't mean its going to stay like that forever. Hell look at what its produced, players like Steph Curry and Kevin Durant (who really are interestingly weird remixes of the volume shooter like jordan/iverson/kobe are) because they end up with such high assist (curry) and rebound numbers (durant). Without the newer defenses players like that might have just been boring archetypical point guard and small forward.

Basketball isn't going to be a homogenized sport just like american football or soccer isn't either. soccer people thought that the 90's italian (all defense and two supreme striker phase) was the answer, but then the brazilian way preceded and superseded that, or how about the holland total football that has clearly influenced the modern day spaniards.

Hell even baseball is making another leap (because of a newly instated computer defensive tracking system thats so clearly superior to past ones) so there will be big changes there too.
post #14123 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post

Hell even baseball is making another leap (because of a newly instated computer defensive tracking system thats so clearly superior to past ones) so there will be big changes there too.

 

Shifts are so flawed though. Remember Cano's bunt double last year against the Sox?

post #14124 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMartNJ View Post

Shifts are so flawed though. Remember Cano's bunt double last year against the Sox?

but like giving up a open mid range 2pt shot (bunt double) has its arguments against the open 3pt corner 3 (home run, embarrassment)! teacha.giflol8[1].gif
post #14125 of 27201
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

i don't think knicks could have asked a hometown discount. one he's not from there. two they had to match rockets contract to keep him
Sorry, i meant home team discount. Mistyped. I agree with what you said, though. The rocket tender was also carefully constructed to make it very painful for the Knicks to match. Evil genius. Despite all that, people called Jeremy Lin a chink because he couldn't turn down tens of millions of dollars, huh? Nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Others have made a similar point in different ways, but I think the suggestion that just looking at points yielded per 3-pt shot vs. points yielded per two-point shot should be determinative of what a team's shooting mix should be is overstated. These shots don't occur in a vacuum.
Yes, in a vacuum the math is unassailable. But yes, there are other factors. For example, in my other post I didn't mention who my third top-3 midrange guy is. It's Lamarcus Aldridge, who doesn't shoot 3's. Yet, I won't suggest that he's worse than Bosh and Dirk. Besides his monster rebounding, which is beside the point of this discussion but important when you talk about his value, he also makes the Portland high post/elbow offense go.

Which brings me to the point about "styles" of basketball. Ed, I don't know what you meant about analytics ruining bball, but indesertum and larry both discuss the implications of a league that only plays a certain way. I have a couple of thoughts on that:

First, I don't really see how everyone is playing the same way. Yes, everyone knows the value of the corner 3, stretch 4 and "3-and-D" SF's and elite rim protectors have increased value, and there are some other things, but the league doesn't really all play the same way. San Antonio has an intricate motion offense that no one can really copy, although they incorporate (pioneered!) some of the elements we discussed. Miami's offense essentially spaces the floor for Lebron in a couple of layers. OKC has that dueling banjos offense that we love so much and Indiana's offense....is kind of a mess laugh.gif and that's just the top 4 teams. Other teams that employ distinct and more or less unique offenses are the Clippers, Lakers, and Suns.

My second point is that the NBA has always been a copycat league. Even in its golden age of the 80's. Teams were trying to find their own towers to combat Ralph and Hakeem, for instance. After that, teams were all racing out to grab great perimeter defenders ("Kobe-stoppers" lol8[1].gif) once they outlawed hand checking and the great perimeter players started going hog wild. Today, the copycat trend that's actually more annoying than "analytic based offenses" is that everyone's fucking tanking to get good draft picks if they're not good enough for at least the second round
post #14126 of 27201

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

Ya, there is a lot of nuance in the game that statistical analysis can't account for. Baseball is better suited for this stuff. But teams are doing it and succeeding... Mavs used it to win against Miami. The old school won't last long. It didn't in baseball. Colleges and even High Schools are wading in. Eventually players will expect the analytics side to be there, even rely on it (gasp).

To my point above, the game is more fun for me to watch when you have distinct styles clashing so I hope the trend towards homogenization stops.

 

Perhaps, but some styles are more effective than others so they will be more common.

 

Advanced statistical analysis is very limited tool on its own. Mavs like any other team have assistants who watch their every game tape who can see much more than the numbers alone. According to Cuban, their strategy against Heat was to take the ball out of James' hands more than anything else(around 4;30 in the video). Probably some advanced metrics aided that, but at the tactical level i believe there are things coaches just see anyway. Btw nice insight from Cuban as a bonus you can see Skip spanked.

 

post #14127 of 27201
Westbrook with sprained right knee. That killed any chance of a fantasy playoff victory with him already missing b2b sets.
post #14128 of 27201
Westbrook who? lol8[1].gif
post #14129 of 27201
That sucks. Westbrook was an ironman before Beverley took him out with his stupid reach. Now he has glass knees. I hope he doesn't end up like wade
post #14130 of 27201
Nick Young wants to end this season with a bang
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