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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 940

post #14086 of 27236
this is kind of interesting.
post #14087 of 27236
Thread Starter 
Lakers annual team pic


Kobe looks so miserable


post #14088 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFX45 View Post

Lakers annual team pic
Kobe looks so miserable
not a lot of happy campers there. kelly, because he's increased his value, swaggy because he's nuts, and pau because he's polite.
post #14089 of 27236
Steve should be a little bit happier. He's where he and his kids need to be, and he's cashing 'em checks
post #14090 of 27236
well he's understandably upset that he's not producing at the level he produced on his newish team. have you seen the grant land mini interview documentary thingies?
post #14091 of 27236
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/b-s-report-steve-nash-with-video/


I enjoyed this. Its long as shit, didn't watch it all. But at least Nash is a good interview. Simmons gets shit, but I think its his delivery, the substance of the interview seems to be there. Nash goes deep into how he thinks and what was going thru his mind in situations, and background on stuff like Kobe and Howard which is sincere.

Nash made observations about how "metrics has produced games where everyone is basically running the same defensive system now", "centers are dropping and giving up mid-range shots". "Metrics has produced basketball that says don't give up layups, free throws and 3 pointers". And because of the metrics, now on offense guys are getting really efficient at the mid-range game. Its pretty true and reflects what we see today.

My favorite moment is when he describes going up against Russell Westbrook, he said it was like playing against Usain Bolt.
Edited by idfnl - 3/20/14 at 9:33pm
post #14092 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/b-s-report-steve-nash-with-video/


I enjoyed this. Its long as shit, didn't watch it all. But at least Nash is a good interview. Simmons gets shit, but I think its his delivery, the substance of the interview seems to be there. Nash goes deep into how he thinks and what was going thru his mind in situations, and background on stuff like Kobe and Howard which is sincere.

Nash's observations about how "metrics has produced games where everyone is basically running the same defensive system now", "centers are dropping and giving up mid-range shots". "Metrics has produced basketball that says don't give up layups, free throws and 3 pointers". And because of the metrics, now on offense guys are getting really efficient at the mid-range game.

i disagree. there's 4 or 5 very efficient guys. the rest of league is pretty bad at it, isn't improving much if at all, and it is well worth giving up those shots. but those 4 or 5 guys really wreck havoc on said system

33% 3fgp is worth the same as a 50% 2fgp. for this season league average 2fgp is 48.5% where as 3fgp is 36%. clearly still not enough 3s are being shot and too many 2s are shot
post #14093 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

well he's understandably upset that he's not producing at the level he produced on his newish team. have you seen the grant land mini interview documentary thingies?
I did, and really enjoyed them. Nash seems like a great person and I do like him.
post #14094 of 27236
yeah me too. he was very honest about his position that he's clearly not going to give up $9 million just because, but also that he's really working hard at improving and getting healthier and really wants (and thinks he can) contribute to the lakers. all things i really admire and appreciate even if you took out of context as one of the point guards ever but rapidly declining.

the year before he went to the lakers he was really producing at a high level. like 50/40/90 with 15 points 10 assists a game

i thought the lakers move would work out well. his later years at phoenix he wasn't like goran dragic throw yourself at hibbert like massive centers. his game was the kind that ages well: very crafty and intelligent and still got open looks for everybody


also to add on to the increasing mid range efficiency debate

i think idfnl has a point, but mine is a little different. i think in a league where you only go for layups and 3s the guys that can be very efficient mid range shooters are going to super super valuable especially if they're a 4 or 5 because they provide valuable spacing. if the 4 or 5 your guarding is more efficient than 50% in the mid range game analytically you want to stay close to him, which provides much better spacing than if you're letting him take less efficient shots but not allowing penetration and higher percentage shots

i think the way the rockets are going about it is wrong. you only get open looks at the 3 and can drive in only if your bigs are super efficient. i think thats why they're struggling so much and blazers are doing so well. LA provides the spacing for lillard to penetrate and wrecks havoc on the perimeter defenders who get sucked in trying to help out only to have their man hit the 3

the blazers are missing a really good rim protector (which robin lopez kinda is). the rockets are missing a stretch 4 (which they don't really have. if only asik could shoot greater than 5 feet away from the rim)
Edited by indesertum - 3/20/14 at 9:48pm
post #14095 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

i think in a league where you only go for layups and 3s the guys that can be very efficient mid range shooters are going to super super valuable especially if they're a 4 or 5 because they provide valuable spacing. if the 4 or 5 your guarding is more efficient than 50% in the mid range game analytically you want to stay close to him, which provides much better spacing than if you're letting him take less efficient shots but not allowing penetration and higher percentage shots

i think the way the rockets are going about it is wrong. you only get open looks at the 3 and can drive in only if your bigs are super efficient. i think thats why they're struggling so much and blazers are doing so well. LA provides the spacing for lillard to penetrate and wrecks havoc on the perimeter defenders who get sucked in trying to help out only to have their man hit the 3

the blazers are missing a really good rim protector (which robin lopez kinda is). the rockets are missing a stretch 4 (which they don't really have. if only asik could shoot greater than 5 feet away from the rim)

You're right. The guy that tips the metrics from mid-range is already very valuable. Karl Malone would thrive in this league now.

Players will refine their game in that area to the point where they get contracts just for shooting that 3% extra for 18 feet. Over time this area of the game will be refined enough that it will shift the metrics to point to a new area to emphasize. Wesley Matthews is an example of this already in motion. It also seems to emphasize guys that can do things out of position and it also helps explain the move towards small ball.
post #14096 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

yeah me too. he was very honest about his position that he's clearly not going to give up $9 million just because, but also that he's really working hard at improving and getting healthier and really wants (and thinks he can) contribute to the lakers. all things i really admire and appreciate even if you took out of context as one of the point guards ever but rapidly declining.

the year before he went to the lakers he was really producing at a high level. like 50/40/90 with 15 points 10 assists a game

i thought the lakers move would work out well. his later years at phoenix he wasn't like goran dragic throw yourself at hibbert like massive centers. his game was the kind that ages well: very crafty and intelligent and still got open looks for everybody


also to add on to the increasing mid range efficiency debate

i think idfnl has a point, but mine is a little different. i think in a league where you only go for layups and 3s the guys that can be very efficient mid range shooters are going to super super valuable especially if they're a 4 or 5 because they provide valuable spacing. if the 4 or 5 your guarding is more efficient than 50% in the mid range game analytically you want to stay close to him, which provides much better spacing than if you're letting him take less efficient shots but not allowing penetration and higher percentage shots

i think the way the rockets are going about it is wrong. you only get open looks at the 3 and can drive in only if your bigs are super efficient. i think thats why they're struggling so much and blazers are doing so well. LA provides the spacing for lillard to penetrate and wrecks havoc on the perimeter defenders who get sucked in trying to help out only to have their man hit the 3

the blazers are missing a really good rim protector (which robin lopez kinda is). the rockets are missing a stretch 4 (which they don't really have. if only asik could shoot greater than 5 feet away from the rim)
Yeah, and no one can blame him. For all the fanboi rhetoric that floats out there, no one can really fault an injured player for getting paid unless he's a fucking malingerer or makes poor choices. I got injured on the job once and I cashed those paychecks from home without the slightest bit of remorse.

The analytics will always favor 3's because with all else being equal, a 40% 3pt shooter is more valuable than a 55% midrange shooter because the expected value of each shot he hoists up is higher. I'm not too familiar with court geometry and stuff, but I also suspect that floor spacing is better with 3pt shooters because more ground is opened up. That's why Chris Bosh, one of the top 3 midrange shooters in the league IMO, still went back and developed a 3pt shot. One of the others, Dirk, already has great 3pt range as well.

The biggest issue with all this stuff on paper, of course, is that at least one of your bigs (the so called stretch 4) has to be that shooter, and it's probably easier to find a good midrange shooting 4 than a 3pt shooting 4.

Regarding the rockets, I'm sure Morey recognizes his frontcourt issues - he really only has this problem because Dwight Howard fell into his lap - and is trying to address them. I read that he's been trying like mad to acquire Ryan Anderson, and is probably talking to teams about similar players
post #14097 of 27236
duuuuu. ryan anderson would be awesome on the rockets. but not sure if they can afford him. they'd have to trade asik away (which should be somewhat easy) and possibly lin (might have to give up a pick)


i was watching linsanity again the other day. frown.gif i really miss the 11-12 and 12-13 knicks

i think he just really had trouble with the hard trapping defensive schemes probably cuz he hadn't really experienced it at the nba level and there are some really good agile trapping teams in the nba
post #14098 of 27236
That's probably the perfect offer - Lin and Asik for Anderson. They're expendable because of Beverly and Howard, and talent wise that offer gets it done. Not sure about the cap ramifications though. If I were NO I'd try I get Parsons thrown in, but that would be giving up too much especially because Parsons makes close to minimum wage
post #14099 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Postthe rockets are missing a stretch 4 (which they don't really have. if only asik could shoot greater than 5 feet away from the rim)

 


The Rockets can get away with sticking Parsons at the 4-spot. He's the size of a power forward anyway at 6'10".
post #14100 of 27236
Quote:
Originally Posted by diadem View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Postthe rockets are missing a stretch 4 (which they don't really have. if only asik could shoot greater than 5 feet away from the rim)

 


The Rockets can get away with sticking Parsons at the 4-spot. He's the size of a power forward anyway at 6'10".

I don't watch Houston regularly but from what I've seen he'd get pushed around pretty good with some of the beefier 4s in the league.
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