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NBA 2016-2017 Season Thread - Page 877

post #13141 of 27204
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

4. Portland is not as good as their record looks. Lilliard and Aldridge are great but Portland is weak defensively inside, have a weak bench and Aldridge has had a tendency in the past to disappear from some games. I'll need to see them continue this for 50-60 games before I believe they have a legitimate shot at beating a SA or OKC in a series.
I too, have no idea why their record is so good. other than Lillard having a huge brass set. I'd love to see one of the writers with access to advanced analytics break this down
post #13142 of 27204
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

Woodsons only good season was when he did d'antonis gogo 3 bomb system only people actually hustled (if we can ignore his time with the cavs where basically the strat was give the ball to Lebron)

Also IMO d'antoni's a good coach. He's doing a great job with the lakers considering his best players are injured or regressing and he's coaching a bunch of lottery washouts

http://www.hickory-high.com/?p=10896

D'Antoni's system is perfect for a team without a big time scoring star or ball hog (and ideally without any post players, hence Gasol's/Kaman's issues with the team). I am not surprised that he is doing well but I do think that his system will never get him a championship, unless the league turns into a 3 point league, which I guess it is doing. He would make a terrific college coach.

woodson's issue is that he defers to the teams star come hell or highwater in terms of running plays, excusing their mistakes, not demanding anything defensively etc. So when you are a Shumpert and you are hustling your balls off on both ends, and you consistently get benched in favor of JR Smith to launch infinite 3 pointers, foul 3 point shooters, dribble into double teams, how long before you say, "Fuck it". Hardaway is the only player they have that can run up and down the court and is a great finisher. On any other team he would be getting important minutes. On the Knicks, no matter how good he is playing offensively, the minute he lets his man scores, Woodson pulls him and makes sure to yell at him in front of everyone (same thing with everyone except Melo, Chandler, STAT, Smith). You saw this last year with Copeland. He would come in, light it up and then get pulled and never see the light of day. Woodson would then say that Copeland needs to work on his defense. Imagine if he pulled Melo eveyrytime he had a defensive lapse?

So when you are one of these other players, I have to believe that you get to a point where you just don't want to take any shots, don't want to really do much of anything except give Melo the ball and watch him, which seems to be Woodson's play calling 99.9% of the time.
post #13143 of 27204
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

D'Antoni's system is perfect for a team without a big time scoring star or ball hog (and ideally without any post players, hence Gasol's/Kaman's issues with the team). I am not surprised that he is doing well but I do think that his system will never get him a championship, unless the league turns into a 3 point league, which I guess it is doing. He would make a terrific college coach.

woodson's issue is that he defers to the teams star come hell or highwater in terms of running plays, excusing their mistakes, not demanding anything defensively etc. So when you are a Shumpert and you are hustling your balls off on both ends, and you consistently get benched in favor of JR Smith to launch infinite 3 pointers, foul 3 point shooters, dribble into double teams, how long before you say, "Fuck it". Hardaway is the only player they have that can run up and down the court and is a great finisher. On any other team he would be getting important minutes. On the Knicks, no matter how good he is playing offensively, the minute he lets his man scores, Woodson pulls him and makes sure to yell at him in front of everyone (same thing with everyone except Melo, Chandler, STAT, Smith). You saw this last year with Copeland. He would come in, light it up and then get pulled and never see the light of day. Woodson would then say that Copeland needs to work on his defense. Imagine if he pulled Melo eveyrytime he had a defensive lapse?

So when you are one of these other players, I have to believe that you get to a point where you just don't want to take any shots, don't want to really do much of anything except give Melo the ball and watch him, which seems to be Woodson's play calling 99.9% of the time.

The league is going the way of three ball tho. Percentages of shots as threes increases every year.

I think the big problem is it's a low percentage shot so it tends to be very streaky which is very bad come playoff time.

Also d'antoni has said before he doesn't prefer post plays as a way to score because the numbers show it's a very inefficient shot which is true. He would much rather use it as a facilitator role like what Marc gasol does. But to do that you need someone who is a credible threat in post play and pau gasol is no longer really that. Even if he gets the ball teams no longer double team him (although teams in general are slowly double teaming post plays less like vogels no double team in post rule)
post #13144 of 27204
I think my current favorite team to watch is golden state. The set plays like the elevator doors play is really fun to watch. Also splash brothers. And iggy finally has found the right team
post #13145 of 27204
wtf kobe down with a knee fracture. fuck

and just when he got pg, sg eligibility

post #13146 of 27204
You have Kobe?

Also looks like asik is staying in Houston after all that talk
post #13147 of 27204
you can win a title with a 3-heavy team. last year's two finalists were 3-heavy teams. what you really need is a defense that can sustain you through your cold streaks...
post #13148 of 27204
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post

You have Kobe?

Also looks like asik is staying in Houston after all that talk

in 2 leagues. traded for him in another. gave up josh smith

and the lakers have such a fucking great schedule next week since they play on most of the off days
post #13149 of 27204
I don't think you have up much if you gave up josh smith. Dude has not been doing very well at Detroit
post #13150 of 27204
Quote:
Originally Posted by indesertum View Post


Also d'antoni has said before he doesn't prefer post plays as a way to score because the numbers show it's a very inefficient shot which is true.

I disagree with this and its one of the reasons I don't pay too much attention to all the new "numbers" being used to run teams. Granted, there is not Shaquille in the league anymore but you look at the FG % of the Shaquille's, Alonzo's and even today, the top 10 FG% leaders are post players (ex. Lebron/Dwayne). I'm old school, I think when you develop a big man that you can feed the ball to and he can score with his back to the basket, its a much more dangerous weapon than having the best 3 point shooter in the league. Anyway, I am not going to argue all that new metrics shit. Golden State is fun to watch but they are overrated. They are not built to get past the second round of the playoffs.
post #13151 of 27204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAMOR View Post

wtf kobe down with a knee fracture. fuck

and just when he got pg, sg eligibility


Time to add Meeks/Wes Johnson
post #13152 of 27204
Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post

I disagree with this and its one of the reasons I don't pay too much attention to all the new "numbers" being used to run teams. Granted, there is not Shaquille in the league anymore but you look at the FG % of the Shaquille's, Alonzo's and even today, the top 10 FG% leaders are post players (ex. Lebron/Dwayne). I'm old school, I think when you develop a big man that you can feed the ball to and he can score with his back to the basket, its a much more dangerous weapon than having the best 3 point shooter in the league. Anyway, I am not going to argue all that new metrics shit. Golden State is fun to watch but they are overrated. They are not built to get past the second round of the playoffs.

Totally agree with you but that's why I said you need a credible post player. The people you mention are athletic freaks and no doubt having them shoot in the post is going to be a big help for the team.

I think what the numbers show is that players that are in the middle of the pack should not attempt to shoot when posting up. Pau's post up numbers are terrible and it looks like he's posting up more than the past three seasons.

One of the reasons why the post up play is inefficient is because mid range 2s are the most inefficient shot in the game. Post plays tend to lead into hook shots or mid range 2s and unless you're really good at those chances are you have a bad post play. Pau used to get to the rim more but lately he's been popping out for a 2 which he's pretty good at but still not as efficient as a dive to the rim





http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/12/17/5208554/pau-gasol-analysis-la-lakers-mike-dantoni

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/85646/how-efficient-is-a-post-up-play
post #13153 of 27204
Basically pau is regressing badly and it's not really d'antoni's fault
post #13154 of 27204
I think the problem with post play now is that players are not as good at it anymore. seems like every post shot now is a contested jumper or hook shot. back in the day you had guys like Hakeem and Mchale that could just put you in the torture chamber with all the moves they could throw at you and get a very easy shot. or Shaquille and Barkley could just back you down and dunk on your head. the only guy who can do any of that anymore is a clearly declining Duncan.
post #13155 of 27204
pau's got that ability (watch the game against memphis). but it takes a mental willingness to get in and bang for position and he hasn't had that since the trade that didn't happen. plus, i think he's a guy who is probably too smart for a long nba career. he's got too many other interests and just isn't willing to focus the way it's required.
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